I'm wondering what types of medical conditions prevent people from wearing masks

[lovelemoncurd]

I'm trying to understand the rationale for not wearing masks. Patients with respiratory conditions routinely wear masks in hospital and it's not a problem so what are the conditions that are prohibiting mask use. After all coronavirus must surely trump them?

@PickAChew

the other 4 looked like chancers,

What does a chance look like? Any different from someone with mental health or neurological issues? Do they have/lack a special tattoo?

A chancer will look different to every individual, I'm not trying to be difficult, just rying to be realistic.

If I see a say 20 year old fit looking man/woman who looks like he/ she doesn't care what anyone thinks my natural reaction will be he's more likely to be a chancer that a genuine medical excemption, right or wrong that may be but thats what people will see and understandably unfair on those who may have genuine reasons to be excempt.

I am claustrophobic. I am still wearing a mask. I am still sewing trying to come up with a pattern that is perfect for me, but in the meantime i wear the masks i have and suffer through. I am absolutely complying, but the suffering is very real. A half hour outing can leave me exhausted and twitchy for the rest of the day because it takes a lot of energy to fight a panic attack for that long.

My son is deaf and I won't be wearing a mask when out with him because he needs to lip read. Masks with screens fog up and muffle the sound so they aren't a decent solution. The thought of people looking at us to detect a disability and then judging whether it's ok for us not to wear masks makes me sick.

So do all these individuals just hide indoors, and waste away, out of sight and out of mind as some posters would have it ?

Of course, it's the greater good and all. My biggest fear is they'll make it mandatory outside to deal with all the idiots crammed on tiny beaches. Ds starts school in August...I can't expect dh to take/pick him up on top of everything else.

There is also definitely help. I'm not a million miles from you based on your posts and I haven't spoken to my psychiatrist in 5 weeks. He wants me to have more therapy but says there is no point referring at the moment. If I'm "desperate" I'm to email him but I'm not going to do that and I suspect he knows that perfectly well. They are basically relying on dh to support/look after me. Our GP told him not to let me out of his sight...

Frustratingly enough though, I suspect it's getting to the point that a large percentage of people who are actually exempt feel they can't go out and a lot of the "chancers" are getting away with it but I can't see a system wherein those who could wear a mask get punished and those who can't are left alone because there is no way to distinguish between the groups. Plus I imagine for everyone who like me can "prove" their exemption through medical records, there will be those who can not. Basically its another thing the Government have screwed up.

I totally get what your saying and it is bullying against a genuine invisable disability, the issue we find ourselves in is that many others are not wearing masks without an invisable disability and we are unconciously judging everyone.

No. You are judging people. You. And it's not subconscious or unconscious (because you're awake and aware of it) it's a choice. You are going around judging people.

I find thinking the best of people unless there's a very good reason not to makes me happier. You should try it.

I'm on holiday in a country where they've been compulsory in all closed spaces for sometime now and in 2 weeks I've see one person not wearing one, wearing a shield type of mask instead. It's just the brits that always need to be so special

Yet another one who cant think critically. The people who arent wearing masks where you are are very likely staying indoors.

DP has very newly diagnosed trigeminal neuralgia. The slightest touch to certain areas of his face triggers excruciating pain which leaves him unable to speak, eat or basically function at all. There is no way he will be wearing a mask.

Do people realise that the kind of mask you have to wear in hospital if you have severe pneumonia or Covid, is not a light nebuliser thing You can just whip on and off whenever you feel like it, or two short tubes inserted up your nose? Those are used in the very short breaks between using the high pressure oxygen masks which cover your whole face or the other type which cover your mouth and nose completely and tightly. The high pressure masks save your life but you have to wear them for hours on end. They pump oxygen into your lungs, but they are incredibly claustrophobic. If the mask doesn’t work, the next step is a ventilator. I speak from personal experience.

“If I see a say 20 year old fit looking man/woman who looks like he/ she doesn't care what anyone thinks my natural reaction will be he's more likely to be a chancer that a genuine medical excemption, right or wrong that may be but thats what people will see and understandably unfair on those who may have genuine reasons to be excempt.“

Right. So a fit looking young person who has a good but invisible reason to be exempt should either stay home or suffer unnecessarily, just so that you and others like you don’t judge those people you do deem to be worthy of exemption, presumably because they look obviously disabled or have “exempt” tattooed on their forehead? Yeah, that makes sense. How about you do you, wear your mask, feel smug and virtuous (in your head not out loud) and leave the worrying about everyone else’s compliance to people who can come up with a rational and coherent thought and have the slightest modicum of understanding of the rights of people with disabilities.

@concernedabc

sunis because you have no idea how many people have PTSD for instance . I’d hazard it’s damn sight more than 100k . Statistics for rape and DV and child sexual abuse are far higher than that . Also probably need to factor in people from abroad eg Syria of which they will have probably have similar issues .

Also people with learning difficulties, dementia, central palsy, inability to remove hands, paralysed from waist down, brain injury, Parkinson’s disease. Huntington’s, sometimes some forms of MS, MND, facial dystonia, Tourette’s ... I can think of dozens of conditions that would affect mask wearing .

We can’t and absolutely should not expect all these people to hide away from the rest of the world for however long .

It is worth also highlighting that there is now very, very little regular or reliable help at present for the majority of these groups . NHS help is at best a FaceTime call once a month . MH services are very very thinly spread . Social services has largely stopped unless in dire emergencies . Local council has stopped care services and stating they won’t restart until likely 2021 . Our voluntary services have been told to stop . Shielding services and food boxes have stopped . Unpaid carers are told to go back to work .

So do all these individuals just hide indoors, and waste away, out of sight and out of mind as some posters would have it ?

Thank god you are not right, but the numbers are alarmingly high regardless and going up. (55k in 19/20) in terms of rape. Child abuse is such a wild blanket that I didn't even search for that. I do hope that you are not correct on that either, but in the back of my mind I fear you might be right.

www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-rape-offences-in-england-and-wales/

Most of what you described are not invisible issues. They are very visible and I'd risk saying that even most of these ppl could wear clear visors.

on your second point: it is disappointing that in one of the most civilized countries this is such an issue. But it has -in general- little to do with covid, as it is more a systematic under funding for decades that caused this situation. And I remember points similar to these being made many months/years ago already.

on your 3. point (waste away at home). No, but to expect even these people to have some form of responsibility (or their carers) towards society is just. And let's be fair, not the wheelchair bound CP person is the real concern. The real concern is the idiot citing MH issues than going to the pub or shop or wherever even if s/he feels ill.

I don't think anyone is contesting really that there are a group of people in society who really can't wear masks. But they are a very small fraction of the whole. (even with your additions)

The issue is that in this country everyone is citing MH issues or hidden disabilities to slack off (both in terms of personal responsibility with covid and many in terms of claiming benefits because it's easier than working)
More stringent, but fair rules* would mean that the money would be channeled to those really needing it and it could potentially cover more things.
In general I'm quite annoyed at blanket solutions. Eg. tutoring money for every kid. Mine doesn't need it. Please spend it on someone who actually does need it.
A good social net is one that doesn't let people fall when they are already down. Not one that gives minimal scaffolding to ever jack and joan.

*UK is really lax in eg benefits. on the other end is a eastern european country where a person who is missing both legs still has to go and prove to a committee that s/he hasn't grown them back year after year. There has to be a fairer and more logical system.

Oh, and to look at DP all the judgey, sanctimonious people on MN would probably assess him as being a ‘chancer’ - youngish, fairly athleti and perfectly healthy looking. I’m amazed at the lack of compassion that has been evident since the start of this crisis.

I'd say about 30% of bus users seem to have one or another of these condition

A lot of people with disabilities/health conditions are on low incomes so more likely to use public transport. And their income got even lower over the last ten years

Where the fuck have you been for the last decade?!

Simple answer is very few- more likely an issue with learning difficulties, SEN & mental health. Actual physically disabilities alone- minimal.

starray people on ventilators are unconscious and paralysed or heavily sedated . Similar with CPAP and NIV - you won’t be well enough to fully comprehend what’s happening .

When patients wake up they’re often restrained so they don’t whip the mask off eg boxing gloves . Used to work in ITU step down unit .

They’re also usually bedridden, under constant 1-1 care, on heavy doses of morphine or similar, and not required to think coherently or to walk around a shop, perform complex tasks such as doing food shopping, or be responsible for others eg children . So it doesn’t compare at all .

Ah right @starray you're one of those delightful people who says 'if you don't like a mask, you'll not like a ventilator'. What a cop out given the odds of getting Covid so seriously that you end up in ITU are incredibly low for the average person. Therefore maybe, just maybe, they'll take their chances given the physical or mental distress wearing a mask can cause them. It's also a crock of shit given that you're put into a coma if you need to go onto a ventilator so you won't really know too much about it.

I’m surprised the “they can stay at home” comment has been so roundly denounced. I felt like I read that on here all the time during lockdown when non-vulnerable people wanted to open everything back up!

sunis have you tried applying for benefits later? DM had ten seizures at her assessment - one after the other - DR said she was perfectly capable of working if they put a pillow under her and she could get up on and carry on working once done . Benefits system is very, very far from lax .

Dsis is non verbal, bites herself and faecaly incontinent - also told perfectly capable of working .

Trigeminal neuralgia - because anything contacting face or head at all can cause an attack so severe it can cause blackouts, incontinence, and vomiting . Been there done that with patients screaming even if air from a window contacted their face . It’s sometimes called ‘suicide disease’ .

@TheSunIsStillShining because they've not yet invented a visor the floats unsupported in front of their face. Any pressure/contact, at all, is excruciatingly painful.

And yes, you're damn right I'll shout about civil liberties and defend the right of anyone exempt to not have a sign confirming their exemption. Or do you think that eg a rape victim should wear that on a sign visibly round their neck just to satisfy you that they are deserving of their exemption?

People say exactly the same thing about blue badge holders who don’t look sufficiently disabled.

This is ablism, pure and simple, so stop trying to justify it by saying “it’s just what everyone is thinking, you’re just the only one brave enough to say it”.

And my quote hasn’t worked. The post above was aimed at @Dadnotamum72