Pubs or kids?

[coffeeandllbd]

Whitty said we cannot have it all. Pubs are jobs. School is mental health.

I have a 13 year old struggling with lockdown. I would choose schools. My brother would choose pubs.

Who would you choose?

Schools must now be prioritised. If young people’s education continues to be disrupted, there will be long term consequences for our economy and for the mental health of many students.

Expecting the typical young adult to stay at home for several months

Because there’s nowhere a young adult can be other than ‘at home’ or ‘in the pub’?

will have a much greater impact on mental health than delaying the education of 4/5 year olds, who wouldn't be in formal education in many countries in normal times.

In those countries they’re in kindergarten or play schools. Not parked in front of screens for hours on end because their parents have to work.

Nice try and all that, but ridiculous.

Schools, because of the economy. If you don't have childcare then you will move (predominantly women) from paid work that contributes to GDP to unpaid work (which does not). Caroline Criado-Perez is excellent on this in Invisible Women.

For anyone saying children can be taught remotely, yes they can - up to a point. For the last few months my dc have had work set online. No actual teaching. If they don't know an answer they just Google it, which will give them the answer required but won't actually teach them as a teacher would who is knowledgeable in the subject and stood right in front of them. My dc are now at the age where I can't help them in many subjects because I'm just not knowledgable enough.

If pubs were actually being sensible and enforcing the rules they shouldn't have to close. Unfortunately lots aren't.

And more people work in schools than in pubs.

If you’re talking about replicating classroom with interactive remote teaching - maybe but perhaps children still zone out and don’t answer.

But anyway for that you need the teacher. Not have them teaching other bubbles or KW, because then you don’t actually get any resource.

I still think the best teaching and learning is active and engaging in class and that is hard to replicate.

I think, for primary, part time schooling and limited pub use would maybe be a way through this. Difficult for childcare yes but I think we'd all be surprised at the end of the year when it turns out that groups of 15 part time make more progress than groups of 30 do full time, for younger children.

I would think that there will be a lot more children at secondary who can learn and work more independently then ever before at the end of next year, too. Silver linings.

If pubs are shut people are more likely to congregate in peoples homes. Government should have had Plan B regarding schools. Even if mixing of households is banned, as well as closing pubs, why should people listen and follow this advice when their children will be mixing with loads of households? Secondary school children and even older primary children, are going to go to school and come straight home without mixing with other year groups? And what about wraparound care and after school activities children mixing with even more children? Shows how much the government knows about schools-not a lot.

Schools, due to years of under funding are full, staff cut back to minimum levels and buildings not fit for purpose. Due to this there is little wiggle room to have children in smaller classes so part time school following a blended learning approach is the way forward for September. Not ideal but mental health and well being of children addressed and opportunities for the economy to grow.

Would it just be pubs though or would it be pubs, restaurants, coffee shops, gyms, cinemas? ie most leisure?

I thought if people were going to pubs ( or cafes or restaurants)they were still supposed to be social distancing from those not in their household or support bubble. So those who are not going with their household, who are they going with?

Daddy or chips?

Children have to get back to an appropriate education after nearly 6 months of educational neglect for most.
Most have struggled and been compromised from where they would be at under normal circumstances.

However hospitality is an important social and economic function. They provide better control of social behaviour other than doing the inevitable behind closed doors at home. Having no sanctioned social outlets is a high risk for generating social unrest and civil disorder. By the time the pubs opened at the start of July, we were coming perilously close to reaching that kind of limit. Fortunately BLM protests were for the most part quite civilised and focused, and the more anti-social types inflicted themselves on beaches and beauty spots where most of the damage of littering and poor parking was relatively easily resolved.

"...Children have to get back to an appropriate education after nearly 6 months of educational neglect for most...."

Lockdown started end of March. 2 weeks easter + 1 week may halfterm. Schools closed usually early July. How does that add up to 6 months?
Max 3 months!!

educational neglect.... it's an interesting choice of word. I'd classify educational neglect as kids being in school with inadequate staff that don't care about their wellbeing or does harmful things on purpose.

"...However hospitality is an important social and economic function..."
This has only been true for the last maybe century.
Taverns were a source of information mainly and a resting place for travelers in ages beyond ours.
Over hyping the importance of hospitality is wrong imho.

You're basically saying that we need to have pubs open to distract people from how miserable their lives are in general and how they can't cope with a simple things like staying at home and not going shopping for fun, so these highly intellectual elements of our society (majority?) then don't go on looting, rioting....

This kind of reinforces my view that from an anthropological pov humanity is ready for another mass extinction event (this is not it)

@godsowncountry

It's not really the pubs that are the problem though - it's the thousands of morons who can't engage their brains and actually adhere to social distancing.

That's not just pubs either - it's supermarkets, parks and oh, the tens of thousands of people taking part in casual hooliganism organised protests.

And if you close the pubs, all of the clampits lining the streets of SoHo getting boozed will just go behave badly somewhere else and probably leave a tonne of litter.

I have to agree with this wholeheartedly.

What a trade-off? Both have an opportunity cost here. As I teacher I would want schools to be back but as a mum of two uni students, I would the hospitality sector to be back up and running.

Pubs provided employment for a lot of young people. ( as well as a social environment). Plus there are all the suppliers.

Maybe the who whole schools thing needs to be split - primary and secondary and sixth form college

@LaurieMarlow - lots of undergrads have been struggling as well. Not knowing what happens next at uni, issues with paying rent, part time jobs have gone, companies cutting grad schemes.

I really feel for them

lots of undergrads have been struggling as well. Not knowing what happens next at uni, issues with paying rent, part time jobs have gone, companies cutting grad schemes .. I really feel for them

Yes me too. I totally agree it’s been very tough on them.

But to suggest that the impact of closed pubs on them is in anyway comparable to the impact of closed schools on children is just silly.

Well I have two undergrads at home. This is really impacting upon them as well.

Why should it be pubs or schools. Actually where we are pubs are very low risk - everyone 2m a apart, table service, temperature checks on arrival - whereas hundreds of kids at school is far more likely to have a large outbreak. The answer for getting schools open in my opinion is testing every child twice, 7 days apart before their class returns (stagger the return date if required) it's not perfect but should pick up cases.

Definitely schools - teachers are being paid - so what is the point in wasting professional wages and kids not being educated. Plus it means parents can go to work.

Do schools then see how it goes and open pubs maybe in a different more distanced way if it's causing a higher infection rate.

Kids needs to be at school, teachers need to teach and parents need to be able to work. It's a no brainer.

@BBCONEANDTWO but the wages are not being wasted. I, along with many colleagues, have delivered a full on-line timetable.

@okiedokieme

Why should it be pubs or schools. Actually where we are pubs are very low risk - everyone 2m a apart, table service, temperature checks on arrival - whereas hundreds of kids at school is far more likely to have a large outbreak. The answer for getting schools open in my opinion is testing every child twice, 7 days apart before their class returns (stagger the return date if required) it's not perfect but should pick up cases.

And then what? You'll get schools opening without cases, but then kids going in from all over the place on public transport. At that point: what was the point of the testing? Unless there is a reliable very quick (minutes), unintrusive test, this is just a waste of money :(

[quote StaffAssociationRepresentative]@BBCONEANDTWO but the wages are not being wasted. I, along with many colleagues, have delivered a full on-line timetable.[/quote]
It's not the same as being there in person nor does it help parents to go back to work.

One sector of the economy versus the education of a whole generation of children...

(Not to mention the women across every sector of the economy who will lose their jobs if this goes on much longer).

It has to be schools re-opening that is prioritised.

It's very very sad for people in the hospitality industry, but it has to be a decision based on the sheer numbers affected.

@DianasLasso

One sector of the economy versus the education of a whole generation of children...

(Not to mention the women across every sector of the economy who will lose their jobs if this goes on much longer).

It has to be schools re-opening that is prioritised.

It's very very sad for people in the hospitality industry, but it has to be a decision based on the sheer numbers affected.

^^^^ This - just this