Pubs or kids?

[coffeeandllbd]

Whitty said we cannot have it all. Pubs are jobs. School is mental health.

I have a 13 year old struggling with lockdown. I would choose schools. My brother would choose pubs.

Who would you choose?

@neutralintelligence

Also the government need to take action now. It will take 5-6 weeks to get cases numbers back down again. People enjoying pubs, indoor dining, foreign holidays on planes etc had their time at school, they had the opportunities of education, whether they took advantage of those opportunities or not. Now they need to let the current 4-18 year olds get the benefit of an education, especially older pupils who do not have time to catch up after Covid-19 is gone/controlled.

And many enjoying those things will be parents who then expect schools to open as normal.

Not to mention all those who have been having play dates etc with no SD.

Out door pubs with limited tarpulins and severe and rapid closure for any spillover of social disorder into the street - in other words, hire bouncers and have them do their jobs. This supports tax-take and responsible socialisation (for adult mental health).

Schools open, period.

@lljkk

Swedish strategy. Somehow they mostly have schools AND pubs/beauty salons.

They also have more cases relative to the population compared to us, despite the generally sparse spread of the population.

My boyfriend flies out on Monday as he has surgery coming up, his recovery will be in a rehab unit because ICU is maxed out with covid patients. Despite a small downward trend in cases they are still struggling with patient numbers in ICU and HDU.

As far as lockdown goes, if there are any concerns about alcohol consumption and disorder/lack of social distancing, perhaps look at the mass sale of all alcohol, including hard liquor in supermarkets.

We should look at the normalisation of problem drinking before we even consider removing education from our kids for years at a time until until COVID is under control.

Sweden do have rehabilitation units for post-surgery, which we don't have in this country so it is not an equal comparison. Their health service is far far better and more advanced.
Plus of course, even the government could not refute the ONS findings last week that the UK had the worst death rate in Europe, so Sweden is still doing better than us.

Schools...with sector specific financial support to enable pubs to re-open when they are able.

And many enjoying those things will be parents who then expect schools to open as normal. Not to mention all those who have been having play dates etc with no SD.

Yes, the question isn't really pubs or schools. It's seeing extended family and friends in their homes/playdates/dinner and drinks at home with other households OR schools unfortunately. And even then schools if they open may not open for long this term.

I think I'd like to see a harder take on other things before pubs though.

I'd like to see the existing rules enforced much more, even if that meant having to temporarily employ additional voluntary PCSOs or whatever they're called.

If everyone was sticking to the rules as they stand we wouldn't be faced with this choice.

So get much stricter with the existing rules rather than close down a sector of the economy because people can't be trusted to give a shit about anyone other than themselves.

@neutralintelligence

Sweden do have rehabilitation units for post-surgery, which we don't have in this country so it is not an equal comparison. Their health service is far far better and more advanced. Plus of course, even the government could not refute the ONS findings last week that the UK had the worst death rate in Europe, so Sweden is still doing better than us.

They do, for people who need a high level of physical care, especially the elderly. His however is in a hotel as lots of rehab facilities are being used as covid recovery for people who aren’t quite well enough to go home.

Obviously schools, for more reasons than I could be arsed posting.

However, it shouldn’t be a binary decision. We need to tighten up on all existing measures, actually enforce them, reduce travel, etc. Outdoor space in pubs can be used safely, no need to close that. Indoor needs to be much more closely monitored, perhaps curtail for a bit and then open up with SD a top priority and much more effort put into maintaining it.

This is just another way in which the government had their priorities wrong. Schools should have been a priority all the way through-a bit like care homes but that’s another issue, they chose to open pubs, restaurants, hairdressers etc all BEFORE full time school. To back track now will be a “kick in the teeth” to all those industries that have reopened and attempting to kickstart the economy. Children and their education are important but we are living in unprecedented times which calls for unprecedented actions-schools should return with a blended learning approach.

You don't need to close the pubs, you just need to introduce the rules which I actually thought were being put in place in the first place - book ahead, table service only, have to stay seated - both indoors and out.

If some pubs can't make money doing that, they'll have to close. It's sad if people lose their jobs now, but it will be a lot sadder and bad for the economy if we have a cohort of kids who haven't received a proper education.

And stop stupid parents allowing their kids to have sleepovers. They do not need them, you don't need to stay overnight with a friend "for your mental health", you can meet outside in the daytime.

Pubs, hairdressers, beauty salons and gyms should be closed immediately. I said at the time it was a bad idea to re-open these, they are all high transmission risk and now look at what is happening

Pubs - see my comment above

Hairdressers - I don't think there's a high transmission risk

Beauty salons - are not open for facials etc and a back massage isn't high risk

Gyms - fine if they don't let in too many people. My local leisure centre has decided 88 is an ok number. It is smaller than Surrey Sports park in Guildford which is allowing 40 at once. Hmmmm.

Our Prime Minister’s urgency to re-instate the “ancient, inalienable right to go to the pub” means pubs re-opened while my year3 child didn't get the opportunity to return to school. Having a pint is fun but unessential. Boris better get his priorities in order for the next academic year unless he wants Mumsnet marching on Downing Street waving the Children's Act at him!

I don't think it should be a case of shutting down industries or institutions in a blanket fashion right now. It should be a case of shutting down dangerous situations.

I would be amazed if anyone catches Covid from the pub where I live. You have to pre book a table, even for a drink. Nobody is allowed to stand up inside or outside - if there's no seat you leave. You sanitise hands on the way in and out. There is no contact with any staff (ordering is done on an app and drinks delivered at a distance). Tables are all 2m apart and 70% of them are outside. Perspex screens are up between the inside tables. I feel safer there than any other public place I've been to.

I think if a place can prove it is Covid safe or completely essential it should remain open. Schools are essential. Pubs aren't but they can be made safe. Safe pubs shouldn't be penalised because not all businesses have done enough.

@SengaStrawberry

But there won’t be “short term unemployment” if a sector employing 5 million people collapses.

It's "just" 2.5m in the hospitality industry, not double that. There are more people employed in education and almost double just in the social care/health part.

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/workforcejobsbyindustryjobs02

@everythingthelighttouches

senga

He’s a doctor, he gives medical opinions.

He’s not your local GP you know! He’s the most senior ”doctor” in the land! He is a scientist (an epidemiologist to be precise, so that’s handy!)

In this capacity, Chris Whitty is one of the most senior members of sage. He is there to represent the joint opinion of sage, which covers multiple fields of science).

You are right though, he is first and foremost a doctor, which is why he is so good at talking to the public and a scientist which is why he’s so carefully presenting the information.

"...He is there to represent the joint opinion of sage...." I disagree. He is there to line his pocket and has hung up his spine in the closet.

"....he is so good at talking to the public and a scientist which is why he’s so carefully presenting the information..."
I might be living on another plane of understanding, but this man is neither. And he is enabling the government to do their maybe/might/should statements and doesn't cry out loud "FFS".
If anyone, I'd expect him to be clear, concise and to the point. HE should not have a political agenda, but again, with the spine in the closet it's hard to stand tall in the land of idiots.

If pubs, hotels and restaurants aren’t allowed to operate then I will be unemployed as my job is dependent on them existing. A lot of other people will also be unemployed.

There are a lot of industries where people are not directly employed by a pub but indirectly - suppliers, equipment, etc so these people will be unemployed too.

You don't need to close the pubs, you just need to introduce the rules which I actually thought were being put in place in the first place - book ahead, table service only, have to stay seated - both indoors and out.

If some pubs can't make money doing that, they'll have to close. It's sad if people lose their jobs now, but it will be a lot sadder and bad for the economy if we have a cohort of kids who haven't received a proper education.

We have those rules in place. It's 50/50 though if people actually follow them. People seem physically incapable of reading the signs we have everywhere saying that they need to be seated by a staff member, that they can't get served from the bar and that they can't move tables together and have more than 6 on a table and following arrows on the floor around a one way system. 75% of my job is now policing all that lot, while simultaneously recieving complaints that service is slower than before - well yes it is, because we've got to do things differently. You won't die of thirst waiting 10 minutes for a glass of wine to be brought to you. I must have turned 50 people away from the actual bar itself yesterday - despite huge signs on the doors (the toilets are adjacent to the bar so people do need to come in that way for the toilet) and the bar itself stating no service from the bar, allocated seating and table service only. If you're really lucky they'll stand there and argue the toss with you for a while getting in everyone's way.
With the mantra that the customer is always right, many probably give in to the bullying tactics of some customers and just do what they want because they think they're doing the right thing.
I agree that the measures should be in place, but strongly feel like the public in general needs to take some responsibility for themselves, and read and follow the directions given because they're not in place for shits and giggles, stop moaning if things take a bit longer than before or just stay away quite honestly. I knew this would be the biggest challenge to hospitality opening again - customer expectations not changing in the slightest when at the moment, we cannot deliver those expectations because of the measures that are in place.

It's not always a case of places not putting it in place, it won't work unless the customer does their bit too and many won't. Though I do agree some places probably haven't bothered so much.
And I think the children need to be back at school and catching up what they've lost, it's going to have such far reaching concequences, this is just the tip of the iceberg IMO.

There’s something seriously wrong with the mentality of anyone who would prioritise The Pub over children’s education. I say that as a childless person.

Schools.

Given how the governing elite has been educated at Eton or similar I think they learnt all too well the phrase:
"panem et circes"