Chris Witty "We're at the limits of the contact we can allow"

[confusedandold]

I've been watching the Press conference and I always find Chris Witty the voice of reason. He is saying that we are at the limit of what we can open without the virus spreading further and we may even have to take a step back. So where does this leave the opening of schools in a few weeks time?

Sadly there’s a large group who are better in schools for various reasons.

I think that's the real issue with lack of compulsion - yes, many people who take advantage of the choice to home school without de-registering will be exactly the 'right' people to choose to do so, for health and educational reasons. However, amongst the families who would choose not to send in their children would be those whose reasons - from 'it's too much bother' to 'the abuse / neglect of my child won't be noticed' - are less good. Some children at risk are safest, and most likely to be sent to school and supported, when their parents / carers face penalties or scrutiny if their child does not attend.

That doesn't deny the existence of children who are, in fact, safest at home and where school is a nightmare and a place they can and do come to harm. It's a balance.

Too many people take easing of restrictions as a Green light to do wtf they like, not just here but all over the World.

Exactly. There’s a whole world of middle world between us all hiding in our homes and “wahay lets all just pretend it’s all fine”. A good example of this would be the runners who steam past people within half a meter (or expect a family of four plus pram to divert up grass verge as they storm last) because they don’t want to lost half a second off their Olympic Training Time! Just show a little Social mindedness.

motheringshites

I know I sound thick but how does the long term plan work if it’s not a case of severely limiting activities until a vaccine is available?

I don’t think that’s you sound thick, that is exactly the point, you’ve nailed it, I just don’t think people realise it yet.

Secondary Ed will need to be part time blended learning. If they insist on sending whole secondary schools back full time traveling in on all sorts of transport then it won’t only close schools but the whole society again including primary schools and nursery.

They need to get honest and realistic and let schools get on with planning how to do it well.

Tbh I think we're not too far away from
Open everything back up and whoever dies, dies.

To be clear, I am not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's not my opinion. It's my prediction.

@user1493413286

I think they’ll let schools back but reduce social contact between households

I've seen photos taken during lockdown in March/April/May on social media of teachers getting together with others in their gardens, going on weekends with friends and so on. If teachers aren't being sensible then how can they expect others to be?

Vetti what makes you say that? , it sounds like that are working against that with the conference today and talk of limits and priorities

It’s not that people want schools remaining closed, just that they should only be opened when safe for staff, families and children. Why don’t they deserve the same as other workplaces? Parents wants shouldn’t trump others safety.

Even in an average primary class the ‘bubble’ makes no sense. 60 parents, step parents, family members doing childcare, hobbies,,play dates, travel and many not following the guidance and how many people in reality are in that bubble?

@jomartin281271

I'm in favour of schools opening safely, but I wish Chris Whitty would come clean about the 'bubbles' the government claim our kids will be in. Every child, teacher and member of staff will be touching the same doors, stair rails and other surfaces that the rest of the school has been in contact with. They will also be breathing in the aerosols that the 'bubble' who used the corridor five minutes ago exhaled. The idea that our kids are in a 'bubble' is nonsense. There is only one bubble at the school. It contains every child and member of staff who is attending the school. At some secondary schools this could be in the thousands. There needs to be a plan B. The idea that the schools can re-open in full and it will not cause the R rate to increase is a fantasy. Many parents need their children to be at school so they can get to work. These children should go to school. Many parents are in poor health or have grandparents living in the house and they want to continue to educate their children at home. This should be allowed. The key thing here, is that parental choice should take precedent over a blanket government rule. If only half the amount of children were at school, it would make it safer for teachers and for the families of the children who were attending. There has never, in my lifetime, been a time when parental choice was as important as it is now. We should make ourselves heard.

That assumes that most parents will be happy with part time school. They won’t.

Vettiyalruken,

A few weeks ago, as the government ploughed on with re-opening things despite the number of cases and deaths still being quite high, I would have agreed with you.

However, I would say that the actions over the last week has made it clear that this isn't the plan, and that the Government will continue to be interventionist and keep trying to juggle things opening with Covid cases / deaths.

T be fair, i didn't think they had the humanity to do this, and thought they would give it up as 'too difficult', so I am pleasantly surprised

That assumes that most parents will be happy with part time school. They won’t

Happy and pandemics don’t usually go together. Rather have unhappy parents than sick children and staff.

Kids need schools.

They don't need cinemas, bowling and Mc Donald's.

They do need leisure activities and sports.

I really get why economy is important but seriously public health has to come first currently.

And I say that with think adults need to work, they need to go to supermarkets - they don't need to gather in pubs and they don't need their nails done.

I think they will reopen schools and then schools will be last on the list of things to close so we may end up with a complete lockdown again except for work and school.

@LaurieMarlow

If parents want to commit to homeschooling for the year and can demonstrate the resources to do it, I don’t see why not.

But we need to ensure it’s not an option for those who just CBA with education.

Their child risks losing a place at their school though. Its one reason I wouldn't want to do this unless their place was guaranteed.

How do you ensure that homeschooling is up to scratch? And that parents can demonstrate they have the resources to do it?

This requires the introduction of a wider checks system to do this, that doesn't currently exist.

As it stands parents can already homeschool if they wish, but councils have a responsibility to oversee it still as they still have a duty of care legal obligation, and as such can say no for reasons like welfare or because a child isn't getting an education.

If you have a rise in children who are out of school responsibility (children were still technically under the umbrella of school responsibility throughout lockdown even though they were not on the premises) you get a situation where there is a massive spike in the number of children the council are directly responsible for and need to assess. They need staff to be able to oversee this (staff they don't have) and the ability to do home visits (not exactly practical).

Social services are already over stretched by the current situation and thats not going to change even with the return of schools.

Our school has already said they don't have the staff to oversee home schooling AND lessons in class too, which doesn't help.

So there would just be lots of children falling through the cracks if this was seriously considered as an option.

Until a couple of days ago I'd have agreed with those saying 'shut the pubs, school comes first'.

But the latest track and tracing is showing it's households mixing in each other's homes and for barbecues that's the greatest cause of spread. Not pubs, cafes, non essential shops, hairdressers and the like.

School is the environment that most closely mirrors the factors involved in home Covid spread. The same group of people in close physical contact in a room for long periods of time, no social distancing, using the same facilities, eating together. Masks, strict cleaning regimes, better ventilating rooms in schools may mitigate some viral spread but really.... it seems safer visiting leisure facilities in household groups with social distancing.

Again I really want my DCs to be able to return, even for the first half term just to get to know their new teachers and see friends. But we'll go from no close contacts from other households to 80+ with DCs in three separate classes of close to 30. We won't be alone in that sudden level of increase in contact come September.

Why close other businesses if that won't make much difference and it's actually going to be schools that could cause an exponential rise in cases.

SengaStrawberry

That assumes that most parents will be happy with part time school. They won’t.

The vast majority of parents - except a very lucky few, probably in rural but not scenic areas - will get part time schooling next year anyway.

They will either get planned, orderly part-time schooling with a balance of in-school and online teaching, carefully planned by teachers (if we are given enough notice now)

OR

They will get chaotic, unplanned school openings and shutdowns - schools will open in September, then their children will be sent home without warning for coughs and temperatures; sent home because there have been cases in their group; asked not to come in because teachers are isolating and the class cannot be covered; told that the whole year group or school has been closed because of an outbreak; informed that the area has had all its schools closed as a result of rising cases; learn that their area is part of a local lockdown. If they have several children at different schools, one school may be open and another closed, or one child ill then another ill and then another.

Full-time, guaranteed daily schooling for everyone, every day just isn't going to be available next term. Would you prefer your part time schooling planned or chaotic?

I get that people want certain things, and that they have their own priorities, but it is worth calculating a few things.

Primary schools, teachers and children in a class can form a bubble. Bathrooms remain an issue, but it is doable to control the spread and pull a stop if needed.

Highschools with bubbles on 350+, specialist teachers going across all years, limited toilet and hand washing facilities, and sharing packed transport? That is a whole other level of spreading and controlling.

It is perhaps even more dangerous than going to shops or restaurants (not that I think this should be prioritized). The density os students, the architecture of schools, the lack of funds to increase transport makes it much worse.

@GreyGardens88

"Chris Witty = Arch Dementor"

Your school has reopened then?

Grow up - and it's Whitty

They need to prioritise schools next term/year and close anything else that they can close before they close schools.

Tbh I think we're not too far away from
Open everything back up and whoever dies, dies.

To be clear, I am not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's not my opinion. It's my prediction.

I half agree with this (your prediction, not that I'd agree with that as a policy). We're edging towards it at an unofficial level already (less and less SD, people mixing indoors etc), it's just the official laws and closures (have to wear a mask, some businesses forced to stay closed etc) that are moderating behaviour for some and I think that generally the number of people following the unenforced rules will go down. Another national lockdown would increase compliance but I doubt it would be at the level of the first lockdown.

@MarshaBradyo

Vetti what makes you say that? , it sounds like that are working against that with the conference today and talk of limits and priorities

Because it is clear at this point that this is going to continue for a long time and I really don't believe that the government will maintain their current position until such time as there's a vaccine and proven sustained reduction in cases.

I think it'll revert to being about the ££ .

I realise how cynical I sound btw, I just have bugger all faith in people really.

If they don't keep schools open effectively they are saying F**k Women - already when you go to the City there are loads of men back but women.....few and far between. You can bet that, for the most part, when schools close it will be women who end up having to stay at home (and subsequently will be first in line for redundancies etc).

@itsgettingweird

Kids need schools.

They don't need cinemas, bowling and Mc Donald's.

They do need leisure activities and sports.

I really get why economy is important but seriously public health has to come first currently.

And I say that with think adults need to work, they need to go to supermarkets - they don't need to gather in pubs and they don't need their nails done.

However people work in bars , restaurants and nail salons ? What should these people do for income?

Primary schools, teachers and children in a class can form a bubble. Bathrooms remain an issue, but it is doable to control the spread and pull a stop if needed

I wouldn’t want 30/32 different people in my home with no social distancing or PPE so why would being in a classroom make it safe? Calling it a bubble doesn’t prevent the virus from being transmitted.

I think the other issue - and one tbh we ran up against even during partial opening - is working with parents to make sure that children of all ages are behaving 'Covid responsibly' when out of school.

There was very much a misconception that 'children are back in school so everything's OK' - so there were playdates, parties, meet-ups, camping trips etc etc. Luckily, community transmission as a whole was very low so none of these ended up with an outbreak, but just picturing what would have happened if an asymptomatic child carrier had been in one of the 'bubbles' but freely mixing outside school did worry me, and of course many, many more of these activities will be indoors in the winter.