Chris Witty "We're at the limits of the contact we can allow"

[confusedandold]

I've been watching the Press conference and I always find Chris Witty the voice of reason. He is saying that we are at the limit of what we can open without the virus spreading further and we may even have to take a step back. So where does this leave the opening of schools in a few weeks time?

When schools go back in Sept all the adults working there are going to get ill and schools will close again very quickly.

The week before schools closed I remember some classes closing. That was mostly because staff were on the vulnerable list rather than having symptoms?

Ages ago, plus I felt differently about it all then I took my dc out a couple of days early.

Actually back then there wasn’t any testing was there? So symptoms could have been CV or not

In case of interest to anyone a good account to follow for up to date information re kids/Covid.

mobile.twitter.com/DrZoeHyde

@netflixismysidehustle

Hancock said that he would make isolation after being contacted by T&T mandatory if people ignore him asking nicely.

I can totally see why people would avoid the call especially as there's no limit to the number of times that you can be asked to isolate and some people have jobs where you can't avoid large numbers of people. I wonder how many callers contact T&T out of malice and make false claims to inconvenience an ex or something?

Yeah people just won't pick up. Not like it's uncommon to ignore private or unfamiliar numbers anyway. And ensuring your voicemails are full doesn't take more than a few minutes.

No. There was no testing available unless you were in hospital. Therefore lots of people who got very sick then have no idea if they've had it or not.

I had an antibodies test recently that came back negative but the reality is that they're surmising that antibodies don't show up after 49 days since infection so I cannot know if the illness that floored me in January was covid or not. I do know that I'm using inhalers both preventative and responsive again for the first time in over a decade.

I'm really gutted and disappointed that we didn't get onto testing fast enough or antibody testing fast enough. Plenty of teachers/nurses/shielding etc would feel more confident about going to work if they knew they had already had it and had some immunity.

Having said that though there's still confusion as to whether people testing positive for the second time have had it twice or just kept the virus in their system for a long time.

I think that's the crux of it really - so much is unknown.

Exactly so many decisions are based on arrogant/ignorant assumptions. “Kids are not affected”.......hopefully this is true but as yet remains very much an assumption. The brightest minds in the world are struggling to understand this virus/disease. I am humble enough not to assume I know better!

It is frustrating that there are big unknowns still.

Schools I know have been told to plan for three different situations/scenarios.

High covid numbers
Medium numbers
Low numbers

I may or may not have had it in late March. Got ill just after my MP. She got tested. I didn't.

Yes. And the only way I had that relatively meaningless antibody test was by paying for it personally.

If 'key workers' had been being regularly tested for present virus or antibodies that would make a huge difference.

My second home is in a developing country. Dirt poor yet able to afford testing and quarantining in covid hospitals for those who test positive when moving across regions of the country. I have no doubt they're massively fudging the figures but they have had tests ready to give people who were returning back to my town there from bigger cities during holidays.

I don't know if we're tied into super expensive supply chains or what but I struggle to make sense of the fact of countries allegedly way less developed and lower on the gdp scale being able to afford comprehensive testing and targeted quarantines.

Care workers, doctors, nurses etc couldn't get tested - that is..?

The least they could offer in the face of school reopenings is regular testing of staff and random testing of students but no. Is our gdp high yet all of it going into the pocket of the very few therefore no money to spend when a crisis hits?

Thanks for that link oak.

This is such an important humbling experience into the unknown. If the experts are struggling to rapidly understand the fuller scientific detail then we as joe public must take stock and strike the best guesstimate way forward as we see fit but with a precautionary and not gun ho let's join the masses at the seaside and prop up the bar mentality. Still amazed people tend to need instructions for hands face and space here. Surely we so many more Covid fatalities than comparable size European neighbours you would have thought Brits would be more mindful and Covid smart for their own health as well as those around them. I think the Covid data does tell the story of mindset, attitude and response. You see in counties like Taiwan which is right next to the source and an island of 25 million people only have seven Covid fatalities yes 7 not 50-60k! They are probably the most proactive Covid smart nation so far. Very strict and systematic approach and none of this please stay in if you can nonsense nor people who just don't get in and essentially selfish and reckless and ultimately paying the ultimate cost. We "saved" the NHS but basically screwed up the rest!

The personal stories here is testament and a real sense of what we do and actually don't know about this disease and it's medical and economic impacts. If in doubt so without and stay as safe as possible as that is the only way and yes that means not hitting the beach as tempting as it may be but moderating as much as possible to survive and get through this once and for all as otherwise we will forever play Covid lockdown to yo-yo and musician chairs like arranging the deck chairs while the music is playing on the sinking Titanic!

more stuff on child to adult transmission:

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/boucherville-cases-day-camp-1.5666352

[quote Oaktree55]In case of interest to anyone a good account to follow for up to date information re kids/Covid.

mobile.twitter.com/DrZoeHyde[/quote]
Thank you for the link. I'm finding it hard reading things like that, because I just think we're still not accepting basic facts as stated there that kids transmit as much as adults, and it is getting to me!

@mrpumblechook you can only go to
Pub with one other household all the pubs/restarants i have visited have been table service and you are a distance from other tables and only leave table for loo , so
Most are following guidelines not like the ones you see in press with loads crammed in , but local authuroties should have power to instantly close them of they cant follow guidelines and fine as many pubs and retaurants are trying really hard to make as safe as possible etc

There’ll be a lot more stories like those day camps. It seems all logic has been thrown out the window. Of course kids transmit, as they do most other illnesses. I really feel (and this is an idealised view) schools/teachers need to stand firm in what is “right.” I’m “playing” at homeschooling, temporarily, but I’ve had a glimpse possibly into why people are drawn into the profession, the joy of the moment when kids understand something, expanding their thought processes, listening to their take on issues. That’s why you teach I’m sure (not all the admin/parents/stress etc etc). To ask you guys to add risk to personal/family health (over and above the rest of society) is a step too far. This is being demanded by many parents because they simply don’t understand the risks. Our Government has communicated so badly what’s at stake here. If a vaccine were developed (and distributed) tomorrow the economic fallout from this will impact a generation. Our Government won’t get us out of this in the U.K., education is the last hope. That includes educating parents, possibly other staff members, everyone needs to understand more about the situation we are facing and the medium/long term impacts. We all need to adapt and that may be hard but everything will be different for a few years yet, even with a vaccine. I’ll be labelled a doom mongerer etc etc but it’s reality and the only way out of this I can see is educating people. I hope our teachers/schools stand firm in the reality of what is happening not fold to pressure of pretending everything will be normal 😔. If Educators bow to the pressure to ignore basic science/maths then we really have lost any future for our kids.

I don't know if we're tied into super expensive supply chains or what but I struggle to make sense of the fact of countries allegedly way less developed and lower on the gdp scale being able to afford comprehensive testing and targeted quarantines.

Instead of using local public health teams and public labs, test and trace has been outsourced to private companies who are making a huge profit and arguably don't have the necessary expertise. This has been happening across the board wasting so much public money and is so wrong. It's a transfer of public money into the hands of a tiny few, and then not even getting what we need in return.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/firms-given-1bn-of-state-contracts-without-tender-in-covid-19-crisis

www.businessinsider.com/uk-government-sued-pest-control-company-ppe-contract-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

Bog standard corruption - the original global highly contagious pandemic that has no cure. The gift that keeps on giving for those with the right type of handshake.

Nothing new and "accepted" ubiquitous common practice.

Still should not use a life and death issue as surely someone somewhere has some conscience if no consequences.

There is regular NHS and PH "inefficiencies" and professional gross negligence eg "care" homes and there is Covid grade stupidity joke test, track, test loopholed unfit for purpose incompetence. Timing and smart awareness and proactivity is something that is severely lacking with the UK government as not so much fire fighting but putting out wild fires with a couple of buckets to appear involved.

[quote monkeytennis97]@SkodaOndaroada so... sod all the adults in schools. Great.[/quote]
There should be risk assessments done for vulnerable adults. Schools are expected to implement a system of controls that will effectively reduce risks and make it safer:

1. minimise contact with individuals who are unwell by ensuring that those who have coronavirus (COVID-19) symptoms, or who have someone in their household who does, do not attend school

2. clean hands thoroughly more often than usual

3. ensure good respiratory hygiene by promoting the ‘catch it, bin it, kill it’ approach

4. introduce enhanced cleaning, including cleaning frequently touched surfaces often, using standard products such as detergents and bleach

5. minimise contact between individuals and maintain social distancing wherever possible

6. where necessary, wear appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE)

7. engage with the NHS Test and Trace process

8. manage confirmed cases of coronavirus (COVID-19) amongst the school community

9. contain any outbreak by following local health protection team advice.

I would also add do not touch your eyes, nose or mouth at any time without first thoroughly washing hands.

@YewHedge

When schools go back in Sept all the adults working there are going to get ill and schools will close again very quickly.

They might. A couple of positive cases amongst different year groups may also mean half the school are sent home. We have to try though.

@MarshaBradyo

It is frustrating that there are big unknowns still.

Yes, it’s a new virus.

3 especially as it is likely airborne being 2m away inside isnt that much help.

So far the evidence is showing that in a community setting the risk of transmission is considerably reduced by 2m distancing.
marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/cms/attachment/de35d107-099d-43b0-ac02-1c05b1f7a240/gr3.jpg

@CovoidanceMechanism

SkodaOndaroada what would you or a theoretical school expect for a child whose parent or carer is vulnerable eg a grandparent bringing up grandchild for whatever reason?

Firstly I would say it depends on how vulnerable. Where children are not able to attend school as parents are following clinical and/or public health advice, absence will not be penalised. This will apply to very few, but it is acknowledged it may happen.

Secondly I would say the hierarchy of controls mentioned above should still apply.

Thirdly I would say if rates of the disease rise in local areas, children (or family members) from that area, and that area only, will be advised to shield during the period where rates remain high and therefore they may be temporarily absent.

We have a standard 3 bed semi. 2m away is pretty much never in the same room.
If the shielded person is a perenrt and especially a sibgle parent they cant exactly avoid their ill child.
Certainly kids in classrooms will be much less than 1m apart.

It looks to me like canada are better with their testing so they fund the cases relating to schools and are more open about it.
Our gov must have loads of info but keep it hidden.