Chris Witty "We're at the limits of the contact we can allow"

[confusedandold]

I've been watching the Press conference and I always find Chris Witty the voice of reason. He is saying that we are at the limit of what we can open without the virus spreading further and we may even have to take a step back. So where does this leave the opening of schools in a few weeks time?

Yes, logically it makes more sense to close pubs rather than gyms. I’ve been back to the gym.....loads of cleaning and everyone social distancing. Gym staff patrolling and will jump in and tell people if needed but I haven’t seen them need to. Seems safer than the photos of pubs I’ve seen.

@godsowncountry

I genuinely don't understand the argument that teachers are being put at any higher risk than those of us sending our children to school?

If someone in my son's class is infected, my son risk of picking it up and bringing it back into the family home is surely no lower than the teacher picking it up?

Given that almost every other industry has been starting to open up and open themselves up to the risk of infection, just why do teachers think they should be exempt?

Every other industry has to be COVID secure; there has to be some kind of protection for the staff, be it social distancing, masks/visors, reduced capacity etc.

None of that is happening in schools.

We are not allowed to wear masks or visors, students do not social distance but we can try to stay 2 metres away, which is impossible in every classroom in my department. We are also at full capacity; 2000 students mixing mostly on public transport then arriving in school, eating in the same places, using the same very limited toilet facilities and sitting with 32 in a room. My smallest class is 24 students, and they are in a room just a bit bigger than my own living room, but at the moment I can't have my own mother in my house. I will see over 200 students a week.

Plus, all the arguments that children do not catch it/spread it are now being thrown out with the research coming from Israel and most recently a summer camp in the US. And, let's be realistic, my Year 13 students are adults, not little reception kids. My smallest A Level class is 17, so there will be 18 of us in a room, not distanced, no protections and nothing like in any other workplace.

Reckon the pub thing is clever reverse psychology thing. So we all go to the pub and set the hospitality industry back on its feet. Make the most of it while we can.

The exempt word always gives your agenda away.

No teacher thinks they are exempt from teaching . All workers have a right to safe working practices. No workplace should be exempt from this.

Imagine if the government had said

Households can form bubbles of 240 people.
No masks need to be worn.
SD to be observed where possible.
Recommended that no more than 15 people in any one room in a house.

Would everyone be insisting it significantly reduced risk?

God's own country.

I don't think you are right about the risk bring the same. It is unlikely that all pupils will be infected before an adult related to a bubble tests positive. The teacher will be indoors with around 110 to 150 pupils a day ignoring corridors etc as opposed to 2 or 3 for typical households

You are right that community from transmission is a risk and exactly the same risk/ mechanism that has caused infections in northwest.

Everyone else is entitled to SD or ppe. Neither is compulsory for school staff except when providing personal care. Teachers are just saying given what we are learning about indoor transmission adjustments need to be made to opening plans, especially for secondary schools.

If not we may well find school chaotic next term. Pupils sent home at short notice, bubbles isolating with little notice maybe even school closings to some years for lack of staff. Surely that will be a nightmare for childcare and possibly infection in the community.

God though presumably a lot of parents are young especially primary mainly under 50.
Some teachers could be up to 68 is it retirement age.
Plus presumably you are not shielding? Shielders are expected back to work today i think.
Plus not everyone catches it so say 50/50 chance of being one of those. Parents have their iwn 50/50 of getting it but 50/50 say their kid might not so reducing the odds. But i guess some have lots of kids so increasing the chance one if them will bring it in.
Some parents will be spending significantly less than 6h in a room with their kid. Some 4yo go to bed at 7pm so up to 4h but some will be in clubs too etc.
Most workers are probably not now within 1m for 15min.
Under 5 now shown to have highest amount of virus. And over 10 to spread it i think more than adults even.
The top places with outbreaks
Care homes
Hospitals
Educational settings.
And educational setting have been higher than hospitals some weeks.
Then you have the parents that send them in after vomiting etc

Tbh it does seem like they want the kids to catch it to possibly get immunity and slow down spread longer term.

Whoever said they don't trust Putin, if Boris said a UK vaccine was world beating would you trust him? 😂 Get real. The UK government has done good anti-Russia and pro- Chinese propaganda. Maybe if we'd taken more of a bath in so-called dirty Russian money the NHS would have been better funded. And don't try to say that the UK is immune to corruption either. Remember the shitstorm about the ferry line with no vessels and all the unusable PPE? Corruption is rife in procurement and planning.

Tbh it does seem like they want the kids to catch it to possibly get immunity and slow down spread longer term at the cost of 100s of thousands of deaths? Without SD, PPE, protective measures we are very much still in exponential growth territory.

Do you want England to have an EVEN WORSE death rate and toll than it does (worst out of all comparable countries)?

Expecting a little bit of SD and masks in secondary (and possibly also upper primary - ages 10-11) is not asking too much. Expecting to use village halls freely provided (and already used by schools so obvs ok for H&S then) is not asking too much. Expecting for extra funding for handwashing provisions is not asking too much FFS.

The government is doing none of this.

So it's about a Muslims specifically is it ? They don't say churches, temples and mosques do they ?

@wilynectarine

So it's about a Muslims specifically is it ? They don't say churches, temples and mosques do they ?

Our churches have been closed since March, are churches open again in England?

are churches open again in England?

Our local ones are open for people to go and pray.

Yes, in England all places of worship were allowed to reopen for services from 15 July, subject to some restrictions, including no singing. They've been able to open for individual prayer since 5 June.

@Keepdistance

Tbh it does seem like they want the kids to catch it to possibly get immunity and slow down spread longer term.

This would be unethical and dangerous, I criticise this government nonstop but even I don't believe they would lie to the nation and deliberately infect children including those with complex underlying conditions!

@Grottyfeet

Yes, in England all places of worship were allowed to reopen for services from 15 July, subject to some restrictions, including no singing. They've been able to open for individual prayer since 5 June.

They should be saying churches too then, surely? Or is Worcester a big Muslim area (I don't know the town TBH) ?

SkodaOndaroada what would you or a theoretical school expect for a child whose parent or carer is vulnerable eg a grandparent bringing up grandchild for whatever reason?

I think Mosques are probably the places in Worcester that attract big crowds, especially this weekend but yes to be technically correct they should have included everything

Chris Witty is not a voice of reason. By his past actions and inactions he is as lost as anybody is.
But he does know that when the shit really hits the fan on this the Government will lay all the blame on him and his SAGE group.
So of course he is going to sound over cautious and make all kinds of doomsday predictions. Then he can say (when he gets the blame) ‘well I would have done it differently and that is what I said at the time’. It is called arse covering!!!!!

@Splodgetastic

Reckon the pub thing is clever reverse psychology thing. So we all go to the pub and set the hospitality industry back on its feet. Make the most of it while we can.

you're probably right!

I think the worst case scenario for schools will be part time reopening (i.e smaller bubbles) in September in most areas with some localised temporary closures. I really can't see continued national closure of schools even if this means other restrictions need to be reintroduced. I'm strongly hoping for full time reopening, particularly for primaries. So many families and children desperately need this.

I think what this "strategy" we're seeing at the minute is a brief spending window. They want to maximise spending in summer knowing that winter will see shutdowns again.

The lack of realistic talk (especially before yesterday when everything was safe and wonderful and back to normal by november) and hyper optimism is about inspiring consumer (and investor) confidence to get us to spend as much as possible before we have to reduce contacts again.

@Piggywaspushed

Interestingly, I read today that even advisers in the Tory party identify Sunak as working class. This can only be unconscious racism as he moist definitely is not. He definitely ahs friends in high places and is known as an avid networker. His stock phrase apparently is ' we must keep in touch'.

He does the charming boy next door very well and ,,apparently, doesn't engage in Etonian banter, sot hat's probably why the advisors think he is common!

Sunak is a Southampton boy! I think people make stereotypes from this. However he was privately educated at Winchester College and also very academically able. I think rather than an Etonian who got a name by being one he's an individual schoolboy who got a name for himself through hard work.

Fair play to him but I find the way in which he speaks and repeats himself slowly with crazy amount of repetition of the same buzzword/phrase incredibly condescending.

I do get the impression from most politicians that they're think we're terribly thick and need talking to like toddlers.

Personally I find it incredibly hard to take anyone seriously or at face value who talks to people like that. I teach teenagers, some of whom aren't academically all that bright, but I don't talk to them like they were hard of hearing idiots.

Maybe he does that because he is standing next to Johnson who clearly struggles to understand?

I once got asked at interview, "You're very softly spoken and seem to be very thoughtful and considered in your approach - do you find that presents a problem with classroom management?"

Err no, a) I can differentiate it between adults in a professional formal format and a gaggle of 30 teenagers who need to settle down and listen and b) actually I think you'll find bellowing and talking down to kids isn't the only way to manage behaviour.

So I appreciate it may be a personal bug bear but I loathe being talked down to like that. There are some teachers who do it to me and I hate it! Especially when they do it in front of kids or colleagues.

I do think if they talked to us like we were fully capable of grasping the facts and gave honest non politicised information and forecasts we'd all be much more on board than silly bloody slogans. Cummings didn't help.