Should we treat covid like flu now and just get on with life?

[947EliseChalotte]

Is it time to accept covid as another flu and just get on with life and back to normality. The whole point of lockdown was to flatten the curve.

I think there has to be a dose of realism that the people who need to work and who are trying to work are going to have a huge problem looking after ill people and meeting their needs. Some of whom smoke, drink too much and are overweight and have diabetes. We know with a reduced tax take this will not be possible. So your dc and my dc will pay for the borrowing which has no end because veryone wants more and more and more from society.

Everyone is saying it is not about deaths and then go on to say how awful it would be if someone (a parent) died. The truth is that ill people are more likely to die early than healthy people. We now treat death as something to be avoided at all costs. I am not sure it is and it is just a different point of view. I woud prefer to die with dignity and certainly not in an ICU.

We're just not used to fatal illnesses; in previous generations this wasn't the case. When I was growing up, kids regularly caught measles, which was a dangerous illness for some. There was still whooping cough, as well as still smallpox and polio.

I've also spent short-term spells in Africa, where many people die of malaria. But no one went into a panic at the sight of a mosquito. You take precautions like mosquito nets, insect repellent and take prophylactics. We lost a good family friend to cerebral malaria.

I caught malaria myself once, thankfully not too badly though very unpleasant. (With prophylactics this is much less likely to be serious but they're not for long-term use.)

It's different posters going on about deaths. I've been saying that it isn't about that. It's about quality of life, which is why we need to take precautions until there's a vaccine. If too many of us end up with long-term symptoms, that impacts not only on us but on our families and on the economy if we're not able to work.

But the deaths, while far too high in this country compared to other countries, don't mean that we should stop living.

The comparison with malaria and other diseases is interesting in that deaths from covid, globally, already way outstrips all of them, by a hefty margin. It isn't "like" anything else that's around right now.

And that's with a concerted global effort to contain it. You know how people keep on using the word "unprecedented"? That's because it is, in the last 100 years, which is incidentally a hundred years of medical and scientific advances at a rate not previously seen in human history.

It isn't more deadly than malaria actually, not at all. It's just that it's more widespread. Millions die of malaria in sub-Sahara Africa. It also kills the young, the vast majority of victims are under 5. Whereas COVID kills the elderly and those with co-morbidities.

@TheKarenWhoKnocks

The comparison with malaria and other diseases is interesting in that deaths from covid, globally, already way outstrips all of them, by a hefty margin. It isn't "like" anything else that's around right now.

It outstrips them this year, for now. It probably won’t always. Half a million people die of malaria every year, a disease that’s preventable and curable. It’s awful, and yet it’s only Covid that’s making everyone lose their shit.

Okay, half a million. And yes, it's preventable; all it needs really is mosquito nets and insect repellent. And there's also yellow fever and Ebola.

I think people are more concerned about COVID because it's impacting on the western world so much.

Yes, it's "more widespread" in that it's global. That's what a pandemic is. And unlike malaria there are no preventive measures other than restricting movement and activity, because it's spread by humans. Which is what we're all being asked to do. It is the only prevention we have.

It's global, but it's less dangerous in Africa and India. They have very low mortality (although their actual rates are without doubt a lot higher than their calculated figures). And they've done a good job at containing it in Africa, as they had learned the lessons from Ebola.

It's also because they have much younger populations. (Although it's been a very different picture in Latin America.)

Anyway, I wasn't comparing the severity of the different illnesses; my point was the attitude towards illness in general. We're not used to the risk of death from a fatal illness, whereas historically that's been a fact of life. Many people used to die from TB or scarlet fever or diphtheria.

We do have to develop some perspective. That's not to say that we shouldn't take precautions, but the widespread panic has been disproportionate.

When people globally died in large numbers due to tb and diphtheria etc it was because we didn't understand the method by which those diseases were transmitted. Now we do. So we can do something about it by limiting movement and activity. We do in fact already have provisions in place for the "old" transmissible diseases like tb such as testing, quarantine etc. All countries have this for those diseases. Makes sense that we'd expand those measures for a new communicable disease for which there is currently no vaccine and no cure.

Oh and the death figures coming out of eg Central Africa, Russia, rural India re deaths from covid are in no way accurate. You can see this because they are inconsistent with the typical curve. People in those regions are certainly dying from this and in large numbers but they are not being recorded as such.

“I think people are more concerned about COVID because it's impacting on the western world so much.”

Not sure: India, African and Latin American countries are far outstripping the west in terms of rapidly rising infection rates.

@TheKarenWhoKnocks

I agree with you about places like rural India and Russia. I know people working in Central Asia, and the impact there has been devastating, and very under reported.

But I don't think the virus would have been reported upon as it has been if the western world hadn't been impacted like it has been. (Sadly it wouldn't have spread like it has without the aid of air travel either.)

@Mittens030869

Anyway, I wasn't comparing the severity of the different illnesses; my point was the attitude towards illness in general. We're not used to the risk of death from a fatal illness, whereas historically that's been a fact of life. Many people used to die from TB or scarlet fever or diphtheria.

We do have to develop some perspective. That's not to say that we shouldn't take precautions, but the widespread panic has been disproportionate.

Around 1.2mn people a year are STILL dying of TB.

@Mittens030869 maybe it's a big deal because it's global. I don't know if it's just because it's hitting the 1st tier industrial countries. Novel diseases always make big headlines globally and then once the worst effects become concentrated then the media in affected areas continues to run with them while media in other regions turn to something else. But this is hitting everywhere so the focus has stayed the same everywhere.

I haven't heard much about Central Asia as I don't know people there but Russia is in a bloody awful way. I mean think our own government has fucked up but at least they're not a dictatorship where doctors jump out of bloody buildings due to being unable to process the disconnect and trauma. ☹️

I mean I think ...

That's not unique to Russia. We've had HCP suicides here too. Traumatised, unsupported, unprotected (lack of PPE). We certainly can't pretend we've anything other than a big mess here too.

I agree that we've put covid facing medical staff in intolerable situations, same as Russia for political reasons. But there is an added element to the specific leather gloved downright sinister bureaucracy these people are facing all the time but amplified by covid and also like hell are the numbers coming out of Russia accurate.

@My0My

Well the ONS says that 25% of deaths were Alzheimer’s /dementia sufferers. I found that really high. Nearly 12,000. If that was my family member, or me, would I want the future these illnesses had mapped out for sufferers anyway? Many of these people didn’t have a long life ahead of them.

90% of deaths had another condition. 88% were over 65. More men than women and we know about ethnicity. So the risk is very low for younger women! However the world is trashed and younger people might be wondering what their future holds. I’m more worried about them than oldies with dementia if I’m honest. Or indeed myself as a 65 year old.

If you're suggesting euthanasia for dementia sufferers, coronavirus is a very cruel way to do it. It's hardly comparable to Dignitas where you take a painless drug that sends you to permanent sleep.

Also if 75% of the deaths weren't dementia sufferers, that's a massive majority.

I don't get the rest of your point. Most deaths were in people with common preexisting conditions (including parents of young children). More were men. Lots, but by no means all, were over 65. So at least half the population. And your point is?

Great article by Joanna Williams in The Times today. Startling fact: more dc have killed themselves in the uk since lockdown started than have died from Covid. No teacher has been recorded as having caught Covid from a pupil anywhere in the world. She argues we are unable to evaluate risk. I agree with her. She speaks of a parent unable to decide if their baby could go out for a walk twice a day; once with mum and once with dad. I find it unbelievable too that sensible adults are now unable to evaluate risk and make reasonable decisions based on their own judgement. We obey the government and can no longer think for ourselves.

I think this is politically dangerous. if also infantilises us.

Just read the ONS report if you don’t understand. It’s as above. It’s about risk and our ability to weigh up risk. That’s the point.

@My0My

Well the ONS says that 25% of deaths were Alzheimer’s /dementia sufferers. I found that really high. Nearly 12,000. If that was my family member, or me, would I want the future these illnesses had mapped out for sufferers anyway? Many of these people didn’t have a long life ahead of them.

90% of deaths had another condition. 88% were over 65. More men than women and we know about ethnicity. So the risk is very low for younger women! However the world is trashed and younger people might be wondering what their future holds. I’m more worried about them than oldies with dementia if I’m honest. Or indeed myself as a 65 year old.

Blimey. It really is Logan’s run!

I can’t believe how many people are trying to justify how ‘okay’ other people’s deaths are. Just so that they don’t have to bother wearing a mask, social distancing, or not going to the pub or whatever. It is one of the most shocking and sad aspects of the pandemic for me.

Again read up about risk. Who is at risk matters.