Should we treat covid like flu now and just get on with life?

[947EliseChalotte]

Is it time to accept covid as another flu and just get on with life and back to normality. The whole point of lockdown was to flatten the curve.

@My0My

Random testing dies tell the whole story of who’s had it. How can it? It’s guesswork. I know of no one who has been tested. Like lots of people I know plenty who think they had it. No one knows.

We have largely been concerned about deaths and they were mostly in the older population. We don’t know if other health issues will go away. We don’t know why those people have had more issues and others have had few issues afterwards. It’s just scaremongering to talk about lifelong conditions. If we don’t get back to some firm of normality there’s a lot of life and work that’s going to stop and it will be disastrous for the majority who need money to live. The state will shrink. No money for anything.

It absolutely was not just about the deaths, you’ve clearly missed the point. Back in March, there were concerns about the NHS being overwhelmed with Covid patients. There was a risk of not enough capacity for the Covid patients and everyone else who needed treatment for other illnesses or injuries.

@XingMing what risk assessment would you give me? 45yrs, no health condition, regular exerciser, non smoker, white, female, size 10. Very rarely even get a cold??

July was actually lower than the 5 year average

This is not an indication that our 'excess death rate' was lower than the previous year in the sense you're suggesting. Some of those who would have passed away in July this year. had already done so as a result of Covid some weeks previously. The dip is July is an indication that Covid killed scores of people, some of whom would have died this summer, followed by a (briefly) successful lockdown.

It’s just scaremongering to talk about lifelong conditions.

Why? And what do you mean by scaremongering? Do you mean:

1. You find it scary and you feel offended because no one should scare you?

1. Or that there is no meaningful information on the topic so nobody should talk about it until it's clear (after a long period of time) that long-term damage has been caused?

1. Or there is meaningful information but nobody should mention it in case it costs the government a bob or two? I hope you don't mean that because you're living in the wrong society if so. We have ethics about these things - or we used to.

@Kitcat122 I'm so sorry you're having to cope with this too. It's awful, isn't it? And the way some posters on here brush us aside because it's not 'long-term' or 'lifelong'.

@jihhery that is exactly what I was suggesting that until we get a year or so into this that we won’t know how many would have passed away anyway this year

I suppose I can get on board with people arguing we don’t know if it’s lifelong but we do know people are suffering with long term effects and that absolutely is a problem!

Well Quartz, I can only say that I find that reckless. Autopsies, data from other countries, modelling etc mean we don't have to live with no idea of what's likely to be around the corner.

@Jihhery I really do feel that either I am not explaining myself or you are deliberately twisting what I say

It isnt reckless to say that at the moment we need to be cautious as to what any data shows as there simply isnt enough time. We have a tendency to see data as being rigid and irrefutable whereas that is simply not true. Data can be used to show different things depending on your viewpoint.

At the moment it would be reckless to make any out and out statements as to what data shows because we dont have enough

Russian roulette.

We don't know yet if complications will be lifelong. So until we know more it seems sensible to exercise caution. Take mitigating measures to limit the risks of catching it in the first place.

quartz

I think you're being ridiculous and possibly deliberately disingenuous in stressing that the July death toll was lower than average as if that means maybe things aren't that bad when you're clearly well educated and have enough intelligence to know it simply means the most vulnerable died already. You know how your comments will be used by those minimising the gravity of this pandemic yet you make them anyway, without further clarification, in full knowledge of the kind of thinking that is going on and the likelihood it will lead to more deaths. Yes, I find that reckless.

Yes

July was actually lower than the 5 year average

It was, but only marginally so at around 3% and less below average than February. It’s dwarfed by the 100% or so increase in April. It certainly doesn’t “prove” that most of those who died of Covid would have died very shortly anyway.

Well the ONS says that 25% of deaths were Alzheimer’s /dementia sufferers. I found that really high. Nearly 12,000. If that was my family member, or me, would I want the future these illnesses had mapped out for sufferers anyway? Many of these people didn’t have a long life ahead of them.

90% of deaths had another condition. 88% were over 65. More men than women and we know about ethnicity. So the risk is very low for younger women! However the world is trashed and younger people might be wondering what their future holds. I’m more worried about them than oldies with dementia if I’m honest. Or indeed myself as a 65 year old.

Well I suspect my kids future would be pretty trashed if they lost their extremely clinically vulnerable father and couldn't rvrn ssy goodbye.
It is very convenient to pull the pre existing condition cards but many of these pre existing conditions are not serious or life limiting. I have mild asthma for example. Yes a large number of older prople died but at least some of this was due to the care home debacle.

@Jihhery Literally all I have said is

We need more time to make any real statements in terms of long term impact

Which is true. Not enough time has passed or data collected to state exactly what the long term impact of this is going to be. We can use it to make predictions and make judgements but that is it.

And for that you have called me reckless/ridiculous and disingenous!

@My0My Once again you're deliberately ignoring the impact of long-term symptoms, yes on younger women. We know that the risk of death was low (although my DH called 999 twice because of my breathing problems so it didn't feel low risk at the time!) but there are a lot of us who are still feeling the effects over 4 months after developing symptoms.

Hopefully the consequences won't be lifelong for the majority of us (they may be sadly for those who were on ventilators), but they're not trivial like some of you keep insisting.

It really isn't just about deaths!!

It’s just scaremongering to talk about lifelong conditions

It's not. "Longcovid" is a thing - google it. Hopefully it's not lifelong and will only be a few months, but some people are 4 months in and counting.

It's one thing catching it, being ill for a couple of weeks (like flu) and then getting over it. It's quite another having a serious impact on your quality of life to the extent that you may be unable to work or do the things you like.

@Northernsoulgirl45

Well I suspect my kids future would be pretty trashed if they lost their extremely clinically vulnerable father and couldn't rvrn ssy goodbye. It is very convenient to pull the pre existing condition cards but many of these pre existing conditions are not serious or life limiting. I have mild asthma for example. Yes a large number of older prople died but at least some of this was due to the care home debacle.

Mild asthma isn't implicated, don't worry

The main pre-existing conditions are

Dementia, heart disease, diabetes (type 2 in particular, so start that low cal diet pronto), lung disease (as in copd, not mild asthma). Those are serious pre-conditions. Diabetes is an outlier as not life limiting, but of course type 2 is also reversible.

The other elephant in the room of course is obesity. Again, reversible.

Age is not a pre existing condition of course, but it is the highest risk factor, and sex (male)

There really is a callousness from some people about this; it's about real people's life experiences we're talking about, not 'scaremongering'. Some empathy wouldn't go amiss or are you not capable of that?

It is absolutely not scaremongering to discuss the fact that some 10% may long lasting impacts from covid.

FFS, we talk about cancer quite openly, why do people want to deny covid issues?

@Mittens030869

There really is a callousness from some people about this; it's about real people's life experiences we're talking about, not 'scaremongering'. Some empathy wouldn't go amiss or are you not capable of that?

The issue I have, is that suddenly people want empathy and understanding. Some people are fine about this. I respect people's worries and personal situations. But I have chronic illnesses and I have had until now a lifetime of people not giving a crap about things that affect me. I take Immunosuppressants, people knowingly (I make it very clear before playdates I really need to know if kids are Ill so I can make my choice) ignore my needs. Don't give a crap about whether stuff affects me and my illnesses and my family. And when THESE (not all people this isn't everyone ) want my understanding that they're scared of covid (I'm not, I have bigger issues to deal with in my life - that's just my personal situation).... I don't feel very inclined to give a crap

WhenCoronaWasALager

Life is too short to live like this any longer.

Where's everyone's resilience? Fair enough for those struggling with mental health, but for everyone else, it's only been four months. What kind of world have we become that we can sit and put up with limited freedom for a few months until a vaccine is (hopefully) available.“

Agree. I suspect it’s another symptom of our now, now, now, 24/7 everything, just pop a pill for it society. We’ve forgotten that we’re animals and just as subject to disease as every other animal population. It will take time to overcome this, but we will if we’re all sensible. Unfortunately in the meantime, patience, realism and care for others do seem to be in short supply.

But it isn't about being afraid. I already am ill with long-term symptoms, so you could say the worst has happened. It's also not the worst thing that's happened to me (I have PTSD following childhood SA). I'm also not saying that life should remain on hold; my DDs need life to go back to some kind of normality.

I'm just tired of this insistence that it's just the elderly who are at risk when it really isn't when it isn't just about death!

@itsaratrap hear hear