School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

I am a teacher. My school has also sent home a very positive letter about our reopening and how ‘safe’ we will be. What else can we say? Do you really want a letter that says your teacher will also be teaching 200+ children and won’t be socially distancing because of small classrooms? We will encourage hand washing but we haven’t magicked up extra sinks or soap?

I do wonder whether schools would have been better to send home absolutely honest letters, spelling out not only what they have put in place but also the 'however's and 'this means that's.

'Your child's classroom will be arranged so that all 33 of you will be facing directly towards the teacher, who as an over 50 asthmatic is obviously vulnerable. There isn't space for 2m social distancing around the teacher, so she will be keeping the windows wide open to improve airflow. However, there s still blown air heating, so any virus in the room will circulate freely for the 6 hours of the school day.'

How can childminders possibly look after preschool children and babies while educating older children?

I did manage this in lockdown for my own children, but it wasn't always easy. It was helped by the fact the school provided lessons for older child to do, so I didn't have to provide the materials. But she still needed help, yes, and of course the younger child wasn't especially happy about me doing that (it was easier for some things than others). But needs must I suppose. I don't think there's going to be a perfect solution and we're all going to have to bumble through to some degree or other.

I was hoping the government would properly equip schools to reduce risk so they'd be able to be open for longer, but they're not doing that.

I am starting to report posts that state outright lies and dangerous information. Pretty sure social media platforms have been encouraged not to allow misleading and dangerous content to stand during a global health crisis.

Stating that people under 18 cannot spread coronavirus on a parenting platform is just as dangerous as someone selling snake oil remedies on Facebook, if not more so.

Hopefully mn will start to be a bit more proactive on taking this nonsense down now it has been repeatedly, and across many countries, been proven to be misinformation and anyone posting it must by now know they are spreading misinformation that could cost lives.

@TheHoneyBadger Good idea, I’ll be doing the same.

At the end of the day, the civil servants across the board are just plain incompetent and not fit for purpose. Govt ministers aren't the ones making (or not making) plans - they're just the figure heads. It's the civil servants in each dept who should be the experts and making plans etc.

As we've already seen with the Covid self employed support - the civil servants in the Treasury and HMRC made a right botched job of it with 3 million self employed falling between the cracks. That's following a 20 year history of the Treasury/HMRC civil servants fouling up the tax system and making it more complex and with more loopholes.

IloveJKRowling but would you be happy to pay someone to care for your children in that way? It's one thing having to make that decision as a parent, but a paid professional has standards and guidance to adhere to.

@IloveJKRowling So true. Wish we could share our risk assessment with parents so they could see the ‘whole truth’.

Sorry tagged wrong person, that was for @cantkeepawayforever

Surely they need to split the schools into two separate streams.

One stream of those able to stay at home and be supervised by parents etc, being taught (properly taught, not just random worksheets) by teachers who can't go to school due to shielding or being vulnerable etc.

Another stream of those who have to go to school (parents having to work, vulnerable, etc), being taught by teachers who don't have underlying health conditions and therefore no excuse not to go to school.

If, say, half the pupils can be taught at home, then that basically solves the social distancing/overcrowding issues in school and also on school transport.

Can you give some examples of your risk assessment @motherrunner. I'm a parent. DC is at a large secondary

How can childminders possibly look after preschool children and babies while educating older children?

Erm, they'd take one or the other, not rocket science. Plenty pick up from school already, they'd just take them for the day instead.
With so many redundancies we'll probably see more childminders registering in the future.

It just makes sense as an option, along with changing jobs to alternate parenting with a partner.

My point was, the virus isn't going away, so you can either moan about how unfair it is or look at options to live with the situation we have.

It seems a shame to interrupt conversation arguing against dangerous lies rather than just reporting them when social media platforms have a duty to take them down. It also must be exhausting for the patient souls who repeatedly try to explain and direct them to studies that they have no intention of reading anyway. And I don’t want to see the less patient souls being banned for, understandably, telling them to fuck off

I work in a school and had symptoms at the weekend a few weeks ago. My test came back quickly and was negative, but while I was waiting I was thinking through the implications if I did have it, who would have to quarantine and for how long.

I'm not personally scared, and I think the risks to children are minimal, but there would be huge disruption caused by one positive case in the school, especially given that so many families have siblings in different bubbles.

Teachers I know are desperate to get back to normal but it's hard to have faith that's going to be possible. There just isn't an obvious solution. I have no idea what would work!

Wish we could share our risk assessment with parents so they could see the ‘whole truth’.

Same here. I also wish they could be a fly on the wall in our staff meetings. To listen to our concerns and hear us discuss the 50th revision of our plans, which we know are likely to change several times more before September.

Scottish schools are going back on 12 August. All in. No one's screaming in the streets about it. Amazing. I'm surprised the sky hasn't fallen in, the way people have gone on about coronavirus the past 4 months.

My son's 6th form college is doing blended learning in September - one week face to face and one week online. Maybe they'll just carry on. It's better than the nothing at all we've had since March except for one personal tutor meeting.

This really does show that everyone needs to respond to the GCSE and A level consultations though and hammer home the lack of face to face teaching.

@Devlesko I don't have a partner so I've got no one to alternate childcare with.

I bloody wish I had a job where I could WFH so I wouldn't be stressing about this every day. But the fact is I don't, and I need to work to pay the bills. Your suggestion of everyone "changing jobs" in the middle of a pandemic is utterly naive.

What a lovely reasoned response.

Scottish guidance is due shortly.

They’ve taken more of an elimination approach and very gradual measured relaxing of lockdown and have considerably lower numbers of cases and deaths thankfully but even so teachers there have every right to the same protection and safeguarding as other workers surely uniglow? Or if not, why not?

Do they give a name to the minister or just the usual quote whilst Downing St does not confirm it?

Tiring, back to where we were.

@oldbagface This is what we can manage in line with the guidance:

-no staggering due to our pupils travelling by public transport (bus and train) but when they arrive at school each year group with go to their ‘zones’
-year group ‘bubbles’. Pupils will mix across these bubbles but each bubble will be kept apart by their zones. No mention what will happen at break or lunch. Am assuming we teachers will be shouting ‘keep 2m apart’ as we are now doing daily break and lunch duties.
-pupils will be escorted off site by us
-posters to regular hand washing but we’re not having extra break and no extra sinks have been provided
-sanitiser in each classroom
-teachers will move to classes, antibacterial wipes provided to wipe desks when entering classroom
-students will sit in rows facing the front, teachers will be 2m away if possible (not possible)
-hot dinners can be provided but must be preordered
-students can stay for homework club but a spot much be prebooked
-no lockers, must carry all belongings. If have PE that day come in kit

Think that’s it from memory!

Smaller part time lessons as described by another poster above, has to be the way forward. Its efficient, consistent and better. All children can get some kind of schooling whilst teachers and pupils are protected. YES it doesn't help with childcare, but neither does last minute closures and repeated quarantining. At least consistent part time school would enable parents to make some sort of plan.

This

and also This

We live on an island. Children’s education is more important than holidays and complicated international living arrangements for the time being. At least then life would be less restrictive in U.K. itself (think New Zealand). Too many people have spent long hard hours trying to get the infection/death numbers down.

and I say this with family abroad. Getting children in school is more important than holidays abroad, or even visiting relatives abroad, or business trips (zoom exists). There could be specific exemptions for emergencies. Also, people who want to go on holiday can do so in this country - goodness knows the economy needs it. I actually think it's incredibly selfish (Grant Shapps in particular) to holiday abroad with our country in the state it's in. You're risking bringing infection back from a high infection area, you're going through a load of situations (airport, plane) with huge infection risks. You're not supporting the local economy.

We don't get to have it all, the government needs to prioritise. At the moment, children's education seems to come last.

Sly dig at teachers here “no excuse not to go into school”. Lots of teachers have children themselves and so would much prefer a strategy that enables them to return to school so that their own children can also reap the benefits of a school based education. It’s really disheartening to read posts like these suggesting teachers do not want to return to the classroom.

I’m also a single parent. If I die my son won’t have a parent to even worry about paying the bills. If I get sick I won’t be able to teach my students and there will be no one to care for ds.

No perfect solutions because we’re in difficult times. Making schools as safe as possible is the least shit shit-sandwich on the table imo.

[quote jomartin281271]Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html[/quote]
How does this fit in with Boris wanting everyone back in offices even when they can wfh?

@user1497207191

Surely they need to split the schools into two separate streams.

One stream of those able to stay at home and be supervised by parents etc, being taught (properly taught, not just random worksheets) by teachers who can't go to school due to shielding or being vulnerable etc.

Another stream of those who have to go to school (parents having to work, vulnerable, etc), being taught by teachers who don't have underlying health conditions and therefore no excuse not to go to school.

If, say, half the pupils can be taught at home, then that basically solves the social distancing/overcrowding issues in school and also on school transport.

Sly dig at teachers here “no excuse not to go into school”. Lots of teachers have children themselves and so would much prefer a strategy that enables them to return to school so that their own children can also reap the benefits of a school based education. It’s really disheartening to read posts like these suggesting teachers do not want to return to the classroom.