School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

To pp: if there is no big surge then this won't be a problem then, will it? But that is not what this thread is discussing. We are reading that there will be a problem in September.

At a personal level im trying to balance mental health of familiy memvers by seeing friends and family, supporting my local ecomomy by using businesses i want to survive and trying to not be in crowds etc to maximise the chance of schools staying open.
I really wish a decent part time / using other building plan had been prepared by the DfE knowing that drunk people dont socially distance.

If the government cared about keeping schools open as a priority they would have kept pubs outside only. They would have made masks mandatory long ago. There has been more than enough time to source PPE for all secondary students. There is no plan. The plan is to blame the union for blocking their no plan. The options don't have to be everyone in like it doesn't exist or schools shut. All schools in the Us had to submit 3 plans: one for fully opening, one for mixed learning, one for full distance learning. And in the UK we've done fuck all.

noblegiraffe sorry, I should have been more explicit, why did they not re-explore. One of the reasons for not doing it before was risk assessment, safety etc. The summer holidays should have been sufficient time to go over those hurdles.

@labyrinthloafer: completely agree, we unlocked a couple of weeks too early and too widely.
There is also a lack of proper distinction between primary and secondary school. Whilst there may be evidence that primary school children transmit less than other groups, actually there is evidence that secondary school children are large transmitters. I think secondary school pupils and teachers should wear masks (as the parent of an older secondary school child who really needs to get qualifications or else have their whole life impacted).

As a teacher and a parent, I'll be bloody fuming if the current school plan can't go ahead because too many other restrictions have been lifted too early

There are areas of concern in parts of the country but pubs are still open, restaurants still open, gyms have reopened. Surely, if there was an increase, these things should be halted/reversed.

There is increased testing in some of the areas of concern so hopefully that will help to keep cases stable and prevent big increases.

@neutralintelligence

And I agree with those who want masks in school - certainly secondary school. Other countries are doing this. It can only help.

So do I. At my DD and DS's school nobody is younger than 13 and many of the pupils are effectively adults so mask wearing is not a bad idea in my opinion. I don't think a 5 foot 8 15 year old girl/6 foot plus 15 year old boy who tower above many adults (me included) are physically a child in many ways, I certainly wouldn't want to assume (s)he was less likely to transmit the virus than an adult.

@PineappleSquosh

So how am I supposed to earn a living? Teachers won't lose their jobs if schools close, I will. That isn’t the problem of the school system, nor is it their priority. Quite rightly the focus is on education for children and safety in the school workplace.

No it should not be the concern of individual schools but the government should certainly be concerned about how people are going to work.

[quote neutralintelligence]@labyrinthloafer: completely agree, we unlocked a couple of weeks too early and too widely.
There is also a lack of proper distinction between primary and secondary school. Whilst there may be evidence that primary school children transmit less than other groups, actually there is evidence that secondary school children are large transmitters. I think secondary school pupils and teachers should wear masks (as the parent of an older secondary school child who really needs to get qualifications or else have their whole life impacted).[/quote]
I'm v worried for my sixth former and we are now discussing radical change of plans just to escape the madness.

I find ploughing on in the face of science just insane.

Half time school would have seen mine finish, and have enough contact with people. I'm lucky mine gets on ok with the work I guess, but constant disruption will be rubbish.

What a mess.

I am starting to become increasingly concerned about this. Looking at other countries in Europe, if we do go the same way, it looks likely to coincide nicely with early September.

I work full time from home. I can in theory keep the DC (7 & 9) at home, but in all honesty, they learn almost nothing and apart from being kept safe and fed are largely neglected throughout the day. Their last day in school was 20th March and they will have had a total of 5 months and 11 days off school when they go back.

DH is a keyworker and works full time out of the house. I could make up some -bullshit- excuse to send the DC back to school as a huge majority of our parents have done, but I know that morally it's not the right thing to do. These parents however are happy to post on FB that they're having a jolly old time while the DC are 'loving being back at school.'

If there is not a fair system to allow all children equal access to the same education in September regardless of their parents employment I will be utterly furious.

I'm largely ignoring it for now, as I will only annoy myself, but I have a feeling that I can see which way this is going, and I very, very much hope that I am wrong!

@labyrinthloafer Yes, it is very hard for the older secondary school pupils - they won't have time to catch up on lost learning and lost opportunities before their time in school is over and they are cast into the world with lower and worse qualifications than those a few years older or a few years younger
Any 2-week quarantines or lockdown will have a really bad effect on these pupils' education.

What are the chances they actually don't open in September? They seemed pretty determined about it with the threat of fines etc.

Maybe they should threaten to fine the virus

I don't see why school can't just be online and those that want childcare can pay childminders.
It's not rocket science.
The childminders could assist with schoolwork.

This was inevitable- especially for secondary schools.

Constantly being in and out of school is far worse for kids than blended learning.

The government are clearly setting up
Unions and schools to take the blame when they should have published more than 1 set of guidance: one for low numbers of infection (all schools) one for high numbers of infection (all schools) and one for schools in local lockdown areas (online learning expectations)

I'm a single parent to 3DC. My youngest is supposed to start preschool in September - I've been a bit dubious about it for a while now but held off deciding whether to keep him home til I saw what the situation is/was like.
My other 2 are obviously school age & have both been home since March.
I'm a carer so if schools don't go back, it won't make that much difference to me but I'd like to know, all this unknown is what has got to me throughout.
I suspect it's still too soon to decide & even if schools do reopen, we're likely in for a disruptive year - not good for my DC with ASD who needs his routine.

@neutralintelligence

I think the point being missed here that it was not inevitable that we would be looking at a huge spike in cases in August that would prevent proper school in September. This spike has been caused by government policies and allowing, for example pubs and bars to reopen, people to take non-essential holidays abroad. It is such a damn shame for the children and young adults that all the gains of lockdown were for nothing and that they will still not be able to return to school 6 months after lockdown started in June. Other countries, including other European countries, have much better control of this virus and their children's education will not be as badly disadvantaged as the UK children in September.

What spike?

I wonder if there will be new providers of Forest School sort of learning for next term for pre-schoolers?
I live near the woods and often see nurseries bring their kids for sessions and they look like they have a lot of fun,

Constantly being in and out of school is far worse for kids than blended learning.

I agree.

@Devlesko

I don't see why school can't just be online and those that want childcare can pay childminders. It's not rocket science. The childminders could assist with schoolwork.

Because I work in a school and am not paid anywhere near enough to afford childcare, I am fortunate in that my children are older and don't need paid childcare but they need somebody around when they are working all day on GCSE and A level work.

Are childminders going to have capacity to look after more children? They are going to be looking after pre-school children during the day, how are they supposed to look after several pre-schoolers and help with the education of school children even they are experienced enough to do it.

We have heard all of this before.

there's no second wave anywhere... what is happening are sporadic outbreaks that can be easily controlled.
The media 're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Scotland announces tomorrow the final word on school as some of them go back in 13 days.

@AlecTrevelyan006 not one yet, but as Boris has said himself, numbers are rising again, we are not yet in August with continued re-opening of closed activities, continued socialising and holidays, and some of us are worrying about September. No-one can see the future, but there seems likely to be threats to the full-time normal school the government has promised.

@madbirdlady22

We have heard all of this before.

We have, and my post reminds me of my mad rantings on here around early June. It could very well be that we have nothing to worry about, but there's just something at the back of my mind that says it's not going to be that easy...

@Triangularbubble

I don’t work. I will be incandescent if it is suggested children’s access to school, peers and face to face learning (online is a crap substitute for eyfs and KS1) should be based on my employment status. If you want to keep your child at home, fine, but the suggestion of rationing education by parental employment is appalling.

Either all children have full time, they all go part time, or it is closed to all but the most essential of key workers (and vulnerable children). And before the latter of those options is chosen, every entertainment venue, pub, restaurant and gym should be shut down, travel abroad restricted to emergencies only and proper policing of social gatherings etc should take place.

Totally agree with this. My DC have had ok distance learning provision in comparison with many, but actual teaching has been non existent. It's just been slide after slide of explanation of a concept, then the work, then mark your own answers. Whilst that might work at secondary level, it does not work at primary unless there is massive input from the parent.

Eldest DC is taking the 11+ next year, so we've had a break and just started to have a look at some of the 11+ work this past week. I am horrified at the drop in their confidence and level of work, especially in areas like mental maths.