School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

And to add, there is masses of evidence that social distancing reduces transmission, and that is what I meant by more safe.

My preferences for catching the virus, myself or my children are:
1st. Never (vaccine please)
2nd. After treatments have improved
3rd. Now/soon

I would far rather contract HIV in 2020 than in 1988.

We don't understand anywhere near enough about this virus yet.

The practical element for GCSE science has been changed, the students now only need to know about the required practicals (can be via watching a video or teacher demo) there is no requirement for them to do the practicals themselves. I imagine a lot of schools won't be doing any practicals this year, ours isn't (it's written in our risk assessment).

I don't think they've been changed (yet) for a levels?

I’ve been thinking about this overnight, particularly the comments re extra deep cleaning. I just wanted to make people aware that schools were originally promised funding for this, but it has now been confirmed that this is not to be the case.

At our school (one form entry village primary so not a huge building), teachers and - where we have them - TAs will be doing the extra cleaning required. Fine, but I would stake a lot of money on the quality of said cleaning declining considerably as term goes on. Not because we don’t care, but because the sheer amount of things that have to be done before school is locked for the evening will take over/staff will have to go home to care for their DC etc.

There is, to echo a PP, no slack at all in schools. None. TAs are there to support children with SEN who may have in years gone by been educated in specialist settings. They are 1:1 with children with EHCPs or small group focussed for dyslexia/dyspraxia like issues. They are support for playground ratios. They are not wandering around fetching drinks for teachers and doing their photocopying. They can’t be pulled from what they do, cleaning has to be an extra.

I’m relatively ok with going back in September. I’ve just spent a week in school reorganising my classroom to be forward facing and deep cleaning it. Cost me a small fortune in a week’s nursery fees! I’m not therefore advocating that we don’t open, after teachers done all that prep. I’m just making people aware that it’s in illusion of a clean, CV free environment. Not actually CV secure.

@Boxer1 that's my concern exactly. It's all very well saying "school isn't childcare" yes we know it isn't, but that doesn't solve the problem and no one saying "school should be blended learning" is coming up with any solutions as to what parents who need to work outside the home are supposed to do.

I am an ex primary school teacher. I would be beyond mad if my husband’s work tried to get him to go back to the office in the unsafe conditions that teachers are expected to go back in. All of the big firms in London have closed their doors until January 2021 at least and have the bare minimum of staff in. This is because they have the money to make sure everyone can work from home effectively, they don’t want any of their workforce to die and for them to be responsible and they know that people keep catching and spreading Covid around the office would affect profits more than having a decent WFH solution.

If these firms know this is the way forward then why can’t the government understand this for schools? One of my children is suffering at home. She needs to go back to school for her own mental health. The other is pretty ok mentally at home but a devil to get to work. However, neither of those things make me believe that it is ok for teachers to risk their life and their own mental health for my child. If I was a teacher now I would be petrified about September. All of my child’s teachers are amazing! They don’t deserve this!

The government have wrecked any chance of schools opening reasonably safely in September by opening everything up too early rather than driving down community transmission as low as possible over the summer holidays. Therefore they need to accept that and start formulating a plan B now so that we can make the best of a bad situation. Schools need to be provided with a minimum spec for online lessons as well as ways in which children without access can access these lessons. Laptops/internet promised for disadvantaged families should make an appearance. Children should be going into school for half days a few times a week for their mental health - good social distancing could be maintained, lunch wouldn’t have to be provided at school which is difficult and children could wear masks for the 30 minute play time they have which wouldn’t be much of a hardship. Employers need to be encouraged via financial assistance if necessary to make allowances for workers having difficult childcare situations. Lots of things are possible. Throwing everyone in in September is just not feasible.

There will be groups of 15 in our school.

My son has been going all the way through lockdown. He said there were groups of around 20 then too. There were 100 children all together during lockdown.

Agree with a lot that's being said on this thread. I do think that the issues of primary and secondary schools are completely separate and assuming that cases remain low in my area, I'd be happy to send my child into a class bubble of 30 and accept the risk. What I'm not happy about is that she will be in a so called bubble of 180, with children who have shared school transport with two other schools plus the general public. It's all very well people wanting things to go back to normal but realistically we need to be looking at a part time learning strategy for secondary schools students to keep them in school longer, keep teachers safer and slow down community spread. Its ridiculous to go from very low numbers in school to full return. Should be an incremental approach.

@Mummypig2020

There will be groups of 15 in our school.

My son has been going all the way through lockdown. He said there were groups of around 20 then too. There were 100 children all together during lockdown.

How are they managing to have groups of just 15?

It’s quite a big school. The first few weeks it was 15 and I think when more children joined they increased the numbers. He said it was literally just like normal school but they had an area of the play ground they had to stick too. And more hand washing.

15 is a half sized group in most schools and would allow some SD, therefore reducing spread. Teachers are worried about groups of 30.

@labyrinthloafer

I don't think they've been changed (yet) for a levels?

A level is a bit more complicated. For the new y13 they do not have to do all of the practicals (but must understand them as they can come up in the exam), but they do have to carry out enough practicals to be assessed for competency across a range of practical skills. How to do this in practise hasn't really been explained - you usually assess some of the skills by questioning and observing as they carry out the practical which is not possible to do from 2m away and whilst remaining at the front of the classroom. There is also safety considerations if you have to remain at the front as you cannot check equipment has been set up and is being used correctly from there.

The new y12 have to do all 12 required practicals, although I'm going to postpone doing any until later in the year when I hope a vaccine will remove the need for social distancing.

BTEC applied science seems to be as normal, the practical exam has a date in the January exam timetable.

@Mummypig2020

It’s quite a big school. The first few weeks it was 15 and I think when more children joined they increased the numbers. He said it was literally just like normal school but they had an area of the play ground they had to stick too. And more hand washing.

You said There will be groups of 15 in our school. I thought you were referring to September, hence my question.

@uglyfacey I agree. TAs are cleaning super quickly on the way to lunch duty. I was staying later in lockdown to anti back all the equipment, desks chairs etc (no over time obviously what's that as a TA? 🤣). I even brought in my own anti bac wipes. Soap for my class for one day when school ran out!!

Also awareness is so black and white at the moment. In school vs learning at home. What about “at home so childcare covered but no learning happening as parent working full time at their dining room table”.

People seem to be able to get their heads around the fact that parents can’t go out to work when kids are at home. What no one in gov seems to get is that parents wfh are not available to homeschool either. They’re not available because they’re working!

I think the government do get it that's why they are saying school as normal. Forget safety.

@TheHoneyBadger: I’m getting to the stage where I adore every human being with an ounce of common sense and a wafer thin slice of compassion.

:) getting there too...

I think teachers and pupils in secondary should wear masks. I'll be annoyed if the teachers can wear a mask but my nearly-adult sixth former cannot.
Yes, they might touch the front of the mask, but if virus is on the front, then if the mask wasn't there then that virus would be in their nose or respiratory system anyway. A mask is better than nothing.

My preference would be for all students to wear masks, for teachers to wear visors, and for everyone to wear masks while circulating around the building.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Boxer1 that's my concern exactly. It's all very well saying "school isn't childcare" yes we know it isn't, but that doesn't solve the problem and no one saying "school should be blended learning" is coming up with any solutions as to what parents who need to work outside the home are supposed to do.[/quote]
The solution isn’t to open schools normally and risk staff and other families because others want the free childcare. No ones job is worth more than a life or ill health of another.

I have a question about bubbles.
Secondary school setting. Bubble per year group. In our school that is 350ish kids. + their teachers + at home they mix with siblings from other bubbles potentially of the same size + some parents work outside the house. Does anyone care to do the math?
It is just insane.
If I need to shield, how am I supposed to feel safe sending my kid to school with the above math?

A.) technology is there to do blended/remote learning effectively and for those who need arrange more irl time.
It is costly: put cameras in the classes to stream lessons so both ir;/home kids can be there at the same time. Ask universities on how they do it, what their setup is. Learn from the ones who have done it.

B) Have a plan B,C,D... have a core of what needs to be taught and what skills are needed to be conveyed, be prepared to take away the fluff.

C) stop fucking about with teachers - give them clear guidance, money and the ability to decide what is best for each kid. Yes, there will be problems, but on the whole teachers know their kids, they know who is more vulnerable, needs more attention,....

BUT first of all: in the midst of a pandemic where the potential long/mid term health issues are emerging to be quite big - don't push for normal.

What I'd have liked to see is unions and dfe working in specialist groups coming up with alternatives to teaching/learning. There are a lot of education specialists that surely have the knowledge and skills to design new ways or alter the current ones.
I'm a service designer/BA and I have done many process remodelling jobs over the years, some in education and healthcare. It seems scary and too robust, but it actually isn't!
But there is no will, so no way.

It's all very well saying "school isn't childcare" yes we know it isn't, but that doesn't solve the problem and no one saying "school should be blended learning" is coming up with any solutions as to what parents who need to work outside the home are supposed to do
What’s for certain though, is that it’s their problem, and it’s unreasonable to expect teachers to sacrifice themselves to fix it.

Yes, a proper plan for part-time/remote/local lockdown learning should have been put in place in all schools. Many people want normal full-time education because at the moment the alternative seems to be almost no education, just like during lockdown for those with older pupils in state school.
I am very worried how my sixth former has any hope of studying A levels with constant 2-week quarantines. I would also be worried if I had a GCSE-age child.
It is horrifying the gap opening between private schools and state school in how they are managing learning from home.

@MissEliza

Noblegiraffe evidence?

If you look at the PHE community surveillance information educational settings have actually been the highest or second highest number of incidents for weeks. For the last two weeks of the term educational settings were top. It's only now schools are on holidays that care homes are the highest again.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

Are teachers ok with part time provision? When KW provision gets decreased and wfh ends that is.

What cc will you use?