School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

I can ClimbDad. You really think a class of let’s say KS1 children can safely put on a mask and wear it for six hours (safely taking it off and disposing of it or storing it correctly before replacing it at regular intervals.) And not touch it, chew it, complain about it or fiddle with it. And simultaneously learn something. Now yeah, maybe by secondary school (though I seem to remember a lot of teachers who complained about deliberate coughing, book licking, sanitiser eating etc by the same cohort of children...) but at primary level it’s a ridiculous suggestion. I’ve been in the class volunteering at my child’s school, admittedly it’s a lively class, but the teacher can’t even stop them picking their nose and eating it, licking their shoe, chewing their pencil, touching everything and everyone.... Several of the class seemed incapable of even keeping their shoes on. And that’s before we get to the communication difficulties.... Yes it’s done in other countries, but Asian countries have a radically different society and education system to ours.

Far better to properly drive down community infection levels. I’d start by closing borders, closing pubs and throwing the absolute book at people breaking rules by having large gatherings in pubs, funerals, house parties or wherever.

Triangularbubble

You have just described why there needs to be some form of protection in place for school staff.

Arguably children aren't going to wear them properly and that could hurt somebody.

How could a cloth mask "hurt" someone. The worst case is the same as no masks surely? So worth a try?

Just as I thought I was clear on the isolation period it seems the 7 day isolation period is changing to 10 days 🤯 At least the gov is acting early.

And interestingly reports that Russia could have a vaccine ready in 2 weeks. Will they share with us?

They have done brilliantly. Are you sure about that?

I can ClimbDad. You really think a class of let’s say KS1 children can safely put on a mask and wear it for six hours (safely taking it off and disposing of it or storing it correctly before replacing it at regular intervals.) And not touch it, chew it, complain about it or fiddle with it. And simultaneously learn something

I know this is entirely possible as I taught the equivalent of KS1 abroad and they managed to wear masks without fiddling, fussing, chewing them, and they knew how to put them on and take them off safely in the same way that they learn how to do up buttons or tie their shoelaces. Kids are a lot more resilient and capable than you imagine.

I just wish parents would be responsible though, because wearing masks and seeing people in masks is new for kids over here. But sadly any child who hears their parents on the phone or moaning to their friends that kids can’t manage in masks, they’re not capable, they’ll mess it up.. well those kids aren’t going to try very hard are they?

Would you take a Russian vaccine?!

And yes, there should be reasonable protection for staff. I would prefer that protection to involve reducing community infection levels, allowing teachers to wear whatever they want and if necessary after that, half classes. But ClimbDad’s suggestion of children in all schools and settings wearing masks seems to me impractical and offering nothing but possibly false reassurance.

www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/europe/russia-coronavirus-vaccine-approval-intl/index.html

If they can do it we won't be far behind. 🤞

Meanwhile, back in lockdown-free, sane Sweden, which now has fewer cases than most of the rest of Europe, their leading expert has declared "we see no point in wearing a face mask":

www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/amp/

@Mummypig2020

How come all the schools didn’t close through the lockdown when they were open to front line staff children? Surely those children would more likely carry the virus than others?

@Mummypig2020 the wider re-opening of schools in June in the UK coincided with almost a doubling of outbreaks, and led to more outbreaks than were in hospitals at the time schoolsweek.co.uk/suspected-covid-19-outbreaks-in-schools-almost-doubles/

[quote commentatorz]Meanwhile, back in lockdown-free, sane Sweden, which now has fewer cases than most of the rest of Europe, their leading expert has declared "we see no point in wearing a face mask":

www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/amp/[/quote]
Swedish high schools have had blended learning so not full time for high school. They have been able to spread out the classrooms and also allowed vulnerable teachers to work from home. They have put many social distancing measures in place.

I am very worried about full school reopening from September especially with the limited measures that are in place. I feel really sorry for teachers.

I definitely think that part-time/blended learning for secondary schools would be more likely to give some consistency by reducing the number of cases, and therefore reducing the number of school shut downs (be they local or national).

Secondary schools are bigger, bubbles are bigger in secondary, and so the risk is higher, but many secondary pupils could be left unattended for some of the time (of course measures should be put in place for those that can't). Not sure what the answer is for primary pupils whose parents need childcare though, and it seems there are no easy answers. Maybe those parents that can (and are happy to) cover childcare part-time could be asked to do that, and be given a part-time table and distance learning resources, with full time available to those that need it.

I'm worried to hear on this thread that we won't be informed or action taken until there are 2 confirmed cases in a bubble... I thought the point of track and trace was to contact all contacts asap :-(

I think all schools (both primary and secondary) should check temperatures at registration, this isn't in the guidance, DS's school has confirmed they won't be doing temperature checks, which is also worrying me.

I also think secondary pupils should be wearing masks. It's bonkers that I have to wear one if I nip into a shop for half an hour but DS can sit in a room with 30 other children for hours and not need one.

DS is desperate to get back to school and I think it will be good for him to go back, but I honestly think part-time is the way to go safety wise.

I do feel sorry for teachers. They have so much work to do and are underpaid. How did they think reopening schools would work with 30 children plus per class... and you cannot keep children away from each other, they will mingle at break times... i can imagine schools would be a hotspot for coronavirus 😣

Schools are already a hotspot for coronavirus. More outbreaks than care homes recently.

Noblegiraffe evidence?

Sorry, I meant more than hospitals. Second highest behind care homes.

That’ll drop, but only because it’s the holidays.

So I’m speaking about primary schools here: for those of you that think it should be part time schooling or blended learning, how can this possibly work for families where parents have to work but don’t come under keyworker status? How the hell am I supposed to oversee 2 kids do online schooling when 1) I don't own 1 laptop let alone 2 for them to work on and 2) I have to go to work to earn money to feed my children and keep a roof over our head. It’s all very well saying employers need to be flexible but the company I work for is already on its knees due to lockdown so it’s really not as simple as that in lots of cases.

I am happy with the measures put in place by my children’s school:
Bubbles of 30
Staggered start and finish times
No mixing with other bubbles during break or lunchtimes
Continued hand washing hygiene
If a pupil/staff member in that bubble shows symptoms that person is tested. If negative they all is fine. If positive the whole bubble isolate for 14 days.

I get that secondary schools will be more difficult but part time/blended Learning will be much easier for secondary age pupils to manage themselves without the constant supervision that primary age children would need.

Boxer, the measures for your children’s school sound pretty reasonable. Those that are arguing for blended learning would be trying to achieve those conditions!

GET
MASKS
ON
THE
KIDS
AND
TEACHERS

They are doing this from age 6 where I am (Japan).

Really really really do not understand the bloody British drama and hysterics about mask-wearing. It's as though people WANT another lockdown!!

@user1477391263

GET MASKS ON THE KIDS AND TEACHERS

They are doing this from age 6 where I am (Japan).

Really really really do not understand the bloody British drama and hysterics about mask-wearing. It's as though people WANT another lockdown!!

Not doing this at all in Scotland, or social distancing, not sure what your shouting about it will do. There's no drama or hysterics about it there, either. . It's not Japan.

Part-time, blended learning is in no way easier for those in secondary school particularly for those in upper years studying subjects their parents might not be able to assist them with .

It's not the full-time education they are legally entitled to.

Part-time, blended learning is in no way easier for those in secondary school particularly for those in upper years studying subjects their parents might not be able to assist them

^ this. My degree is chemistry and physics but I don't have a fully equipped lab to help my children with their triple science practicals and their chosen sporting activities have been cancelled so they aren't getting the observed and witnessed sessions for GCSE PE. They name the sports they are doing and can't just change it at the drop of a hat.

@pepperycinnamon

Part-time, blended learning is in no way easier for those in secondary school particularly for those in upper years studying subjects their parents might not be able to assist them

^ this. My degree is chemistry and physics but I don't have a fully equipped lab to help my children with their triple science practicals and their chosen sporting activities have been cancelled so they aren't getting the observed and witnessed sessions for GCSE PE. They name the sports they are doing and can't just change it at the drop of a hat.

I do feel that we needed some prioritisation. Clearly those exam-level practicals are important.

They could have happened more reliably imo with small groups and distancing, as I just feel everyone will be in and out all winter.

This is also why the government being so reluctant to look at exams for 2021 is unhelpful too. The practical elements could be reduced for example (I have one doing sciences).

My personal view is I don't really mind ifmy child 'misses' some curriculum content this year, so long as they retain their school contact, social contact, can make it up later and it doesn't disadvantage them disproportionately.

But no thought has gone in at all.

I want different things for my exam year child than I do for my lower school child, obviously.

It's not the full-time education they are legally entitled to.

Maybe it is this attitude that drives the government, but I would far far rather my children had a sensible, deliverable and more safe part time education, than all shoved in full time with no distancing just to tick this box.

@labyrinthloafer

It's not the full-time education they are legally entitled to.

Maybe it is this attitude that drives the government, but I would far far rather my children had a sensible, deliverable and more safe part time education, than all shoved in full time with no distancing just to tick this box.

No evidence at all it's 'more safe'. There's no such thing as 'safe' in this world. This virus is going nowhere. We have to learn to live with it. Throwing education under a bus isn't a good way to do that.

Distancing is simply not sustainable or sensible among young people, well, adults, either, long-term. We're social animals.

@uniglowooljumper I don't think, really, at this early stage in understanding the virus, than one parent can ask another to take that risk.

We will have to learn to live with it - but we don't yet have a clue what we are learning to live with.

You are rushing too fast.

My children's education doesn't have to stop, it just has to be different, as distancing is the top priority currently.

It isn't my child's fault the government has failed to get a grip of community transmission. But I'm not minded to just accept the risk of this when we don't know what impact it has on asymptomatic people and we really have no clue.