AIBU? To think that a second wave isn't inevitable just yet?

[Littlemeadow123]

I know that the government/medical experts have been that a 2nd wave will arrive during late autumn/winter. Maybe it will.

But...now they are saying that a second wave will probably happen in the UK in a few weeks, because of holiday makers bringing it back from mainland Europe. Am I being unreasonable to think that if that is such a likely consequence then the government should grow a pair and ground the bloody airlines and stop people going? Like loads of other countries had the bollocks to do at the very beginning.

I know doing this could just be putting off the inevitable, but at least that way, we will only have another wave at the back end of this year (if it comes) instead of having an extra one in August as well.

And OP your posts are becoming more and more hysterical and dare I say it, scare mongering.

Yes, COVID is here to stay. Yes, we might have waves of the virus, but truth is we don’t know.

But if the virus is going to stay then people will always catch it, even when there is a vaccine people will catch COVID and people will die from COVID.

Destroying the airline and the travel industry will lead to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of job losses and the associated difficulties that go with that.

And for every job that is lost that’s another person in the job market. Did you see the article the other day where a job for a hotel receptionist had 1000 applicants? That is going to be the state of the employment market and getting worse, the more industries which are forced to shut down.

We need to where possible reduce infection rates so our health services can cope.

But we also need to personally learn to live with the virus and make our own decisions.

And the truth is, we’re all going to die of something.

What is the point of being so worried about dying of this one thing that you’re not actually living?

Everyone's been banging on about this second wave for weeks. Hasn't happened yet.

Because the first wave hasn't ended yet!

@Littlemeadow123 I didn't say we were back to normal. The point is that the directive is that large scale events are going to be happening from 1st October, so things are moving in this direction for now. Social distancing will be part of daily life for a long time of course.

@AlternativePerspective

And OP your posts are becoming more and more hysterical and dare I say it, scare mongering.

Yes, COVID is here to stay. Yes, we might have waves of the virus, but truth is we don’t know.

But if the virus is going to stay then people will always catch it, even when there is a vaccine people will catch COVID and people will die from COVID.

Destroying the airline and the travel industry will lead to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of job losses and the associated difficulties that go with that.

And for every job that is lost that’s another person in the job market. Did you see the article the other day where a job for a hotel receptionist had 1000 applicants? That is going to be the state of the employment market and getting worse, the more industries which are forced to shut down.

We need to where possible reduce infection rates so our health services can cope.

But we also need to personally learn to live with the virus and make our own decisions.

And the truth is, we’re all going to die of something.

What is the point of being so worried about dying of this one thing that you’re not actually living?

This argument is alluring but silly.

I can see the temptation but the fact every nation is taking this very seriously demonstrates just letting the virus circulate unchecked is not a possibility.

Actually tackling the bloody thing is a much better strategy.

Although if you want to catch it yourself, go ahead.

@Squidgebum

As I've said multiple times now, I don't want to ground airlines forever.

There is absolutely nothing to say that a vaccine won't be found either. And as people on here have said, it will get easier to treat as we find out more about it.

If we all sit around thinking "Oh well, more waves are inevitable" or "Oh well, we are going to have covid with us for the rest of our lives" we will soon fall into the trap of thinking "Oh well, what is the point in trying to take precautions" or "Oh well, what's the point of trying to lessen the spread of this virus. It's inevitable,".

It never went away

And why numbers are creeping up is because there is more movement plus the relaxing of restrictions it’s really not rocket science

It’s here for some time

'@AlternativePerspective
What is the point of being so worried about dying of this one thing that you’re not actually living?'

This! I cant see the value of being alive if I cant see any of my family ever again because they live abroad. Living life has to resume at some point. I refuse to sit and be scared of one thing that can kill me in a world of things that can kill me.

[quote SqidgeBum]'@AlternativePerspective
What is the point of being so worried about dying of this one thing that you’re not actually living?'

This! I cant see the value of being alive if I cant see any of my family ever again because they live abroad. Living life has to resume at some point. I refuse to sit and be scared of one thing that can kill me in a world of things that can kill me.[/quote]
I think if we really worked the UK could get it right down to a level where track a d trace could cope - then we can really get some normality back.

I'm not sure some people fully appreciate the difference of covid. The government would not do all this if the alternative - letting it just bubble up again - wasn't absolutely shit and quite scary.

@AlternativePerspective

Where have I said covid is here to stay? I've actually just said that we might find a vaccine. Actually, I think we will.

Yes, if we started grounding flights, then it would cause problems for airlines, but how problematic is it going to be if we go into a 2nd lockdown? Just a couple of months after coming out of the first?

I'm not scaremongering, just giving facts. Holidays abroad is going to lead to more cases in the uk upon return. Which could lead to restrictions being tightened again or a 2nd lockdown. These are things that people who feel they need a holiday abroad every year don't want to think about.

@Squidgebum

I've already told you once that I am not suggesting that we ground airlines until the end of time. Just wait a few more months, when the situation in the uk isn't so fragile.

OP the vaccine isnt coming fast if it's coming at all. If you ground airlines there will be no airlines left. They cant just sit around waiting until what, feb or March of next year when the winter season is easing. Thousands of people would lose their jobs, businesses that rely on air travel to function would collapse, families would be stranded from each other with no way of getting home if for example their parent or child dies in another country. It's not as straightforward as 'ground them until it's better here'

I can see the temptation but the fact every nation is taking this very seriously demonstrates just letting the virus circulate unchecked is not a possibility. But there has to be middle ground between closing the world and doing nothing.

Keeping the world in lockdown forever isn’t an option. Doing that is going to have a far greater impact than COVID.

And nowhere have I said that people should just be free to do as they please, that’s why there have to be localised restrictions.

But it’s a balancing act between keeping the virus in check and life continuing.

Saying we are going to have to live with the virus isn’t a suggestion, it’s a fact

There has to come a point when we have a “new normal” way of living, and that involves individuals taking responsibility for themselves within certain boundaries.

I have no intention of catching the virus, I am already in heart failure and needing a transplant, catching COVID would be rather bad news for me. But equally I can take my own precautions without starting to suggest we bring the whole world down.

It’s very easy to sit on the sidelines and suggest the airline industry be shut down indefinitely, or that borders be closed indefinitely, or that travel be stopped. People saying it don’t actually have to live with the implications of it.

Instead people could do something, they could wear masks, they could socially distance. But instead of doing those things they blame the government and suggest steps be put in place which won’t affect them personally.

This isn’t just about the governments of the world, it’s about individuals and their need to take personal responsibility.

The only way to contain the virus is to contain the vector responsible for spreading the virus, i.e. people
That means EVERYONE has to stay VERY local
But everyone feels as if foreign travel is a human right
I understand why people feel as if they ought to be able to have a holiday but this is incompatible with containing the virus ☹️ we cannot have it both ways, sadly ☹️

@Squidgebum

If we get a vaccine by early next year then that will be quite soon, for a vaccine. Because it has to be trailed and tested to ensure that it works and it is safe.

Obviously essential travel should still be allowed.

Yes it would be problematic for airlines, but how problematic is it going to be for other businesses if we march into another lockdown? Businesses will sink, thousands of people made jobless etc etc.

I've actually just said that we might find a vaccine. Actually, I think we will. How long? A year? Two years? Five years? Even the chief medical officers are saying that the most important thing here is finding treatments which work, because there is no guarantee of a vaccine.

Besides which, even if there is a vaccine people will still catch COVID, and people will still die from COVID.

We have a flu vaccination programme every year and 15000 plus people die from flu every year

Half a million people die worldwide from TB and there is a vaccine for that.

People are putting far too much thought into the vaccine being the answer, it isn’t.

You have to be responsible for yourself.

I ended up in heart failure as a result of the flu four years ago which highlighted a genetic heart condition I didn’t know I had. I have the flu vaccine every year but I am not complacent. Anyone near me who has flu like symptoms stays away.

We don’t go into lockdown over the winter because of flu, but we do urge people to take precautions.

We need to get people to think the same about COVID and the longer you keep the world in lockdown the more people are going to think they don’t have any responsibility here because the government will keep them safe.

*trialed not trailed.

They blame the government
I agree that people ought to take their civic duties seriously, but the government should also take its duties seriously
Instead we have lies cover-ups mixed messaging confusion and hypocrisy

Yes it would be problematic for airlines, but how problematic is it going to be for other businesses if we march into another lockdown? Businesses will sink, thousands of people made jobless etc etc. So, lock down the airlines. Businesses will sink (airlines, airports, retail within those airports, manufacturing, catering for those airlines, travel agents.). Businesses will sink, there will be thousands of job losses....

Mmm take yer pick.

The important figure is the infection rate, because even if you survive (and most people do) you still have the capacity to be seriously ill and/or left with lifelong complications.

Yeah there's people I know that still have complications months after having it.

The government just want to make it look like they are doing something rather than nothing. What they've effectively done though is nothing.

They won't do anymore I doubt. We need the money and they don't care about our health. A second wave is coming, now or at Christmas time, who knows. Maybe we'll have a third wave by Christmas time.

YANBU

It’s not inevitable but it’s going to take hard work by government and people complying with the rules.

They don't care about our health
The overarching concern is to stay in power so that the population can be milked for profits which are then channeled into the coffers of their rich friends backers and associates.

however it is more difficult to extract a profit from an unhealthy population

OP, you’re obsessed with another lockdown. There isn’t going to be one for two reasons: the country can’t afford it and people won’t stand for it. There will probably be localised lockdowns but you can forget another national one. It’s just not happening.

You can't separate the economy from health. Without tax income there is nothing to pay for the NHS, poverty massively increases negative health outcomes. We need the economy to get going so we can continue to treat people.

Annoying that private hospitals still haven't opened. At this rate they are not going to at all.

Seems to me like the government are just setting up a situation in which they get to avoid blame for poor pandemic management if there's a second wave (which they're expecting). It will be all the holiday makers fault/Spain's fault/ France's fault. Cummings is putting a lot of time into re-writing history with regards to their mistakes (that cost many lives) during the pandemic. He managed to get Brexit done & get Bozo in (both with paid for Russian interference) - now he's getting Boris off the hook.