16 cases linked to one pub - all pubgoers asked to self-isolate

[Redolent]

Pubgoers urged to self-isolate after 16 cases linked to pub

Health officials are urging visitors to a West Sussex pub to self-isolate after it was linked to 16 new coronavirus cases.

Crawley borough council has urged everyone who has visited the Downsman pub between 8 and 18 July (excluding 16 July) to self-isolate for two weeks from the date of their last visit.

On 19 July, the pub posted on Facebook that it had taken the decision to temporarily close after two of its staff members tested positive for Covid-19.

“There are 16 confirmed cases of coronavirus with a link to the pub and while this is a relatively small number and may not be the definite source of infection for all these cases, we are asking people to take action to ensure the virus does not spread further,” says a statement on the councils’ website.

“West Sussex county council public health and Public Health England are continuing to monitor the situation and will organise contact tracing for any further identified cases who may have visited the pub.”

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From The Guardian blog

Brilliant.

The issue apparently is that as it is predominantantly younger people in pubs, a lot of asymptomatic transmission occurs before anyone gets tested.

Looking forward to gyms opening, that'll be great

This is how it happens. Confined spaces. I don't want lockdown to continue but its nowhere near over.

But isn’t that why we have the tracing system which actually seems to have worked in this case. They have found a local outbreak, they have identified the source and have identified those who need to isolate as a precaution.

So what's the point of having social distancing measures in place if everyone who has been to the pub is expected to self isolate anyway? Or is the issue here that there are so many positives that most other customers will have been closeish to someone who has tested positive? If just one person who went on one day had tested positive would they be asking every customer to self isolate?

Pubs are really dangerous. Enclosed space, lots of talking, people getting too close. Sixteen people may not seem like a lot, but who knows how many people those 16 have passed it onto. I feel for the businesses who have been so badly affected, but I'm not going anywhere near pubs at the moment. The UK is sitting pretty fr the next wave about to start any day now.

@RichardMarxisinnocent

So what's the point of having social distancing measures in place if everyone who has been to the pub is expected to self isolate anyway? Or is the issue here that there are so many positives that most other customers will have been closeish to someone who has tested positive? If just one person who went on one day had tested positive would they be asking every customer to self isolate?

The social distancing measure currently being adopted are pretty pointless in pubs and restaurants. They’re far riskier places than supermarkets but people aren’t wearing masks in them (+ they’re laughing, talking, and drinking alcohol which reduces social inhibitions). The government knows that but it can’t do anything about it.

I'd stick to outdoor seating for the time being, I don't think there's any higher risk there than there is on the beach or the park, eg.

We live opposite a pub, and every Friday Saturday and Sunday since opening again, it's been heaving. Even outside.

We went over when it first opened, because we were desperate to get out and see some sunshine. It looked dead. No cars in the car park, no one sat outside.

Within 5 minutes of us sitting on a bench in the desolate garden, about 50 women dolled up got out of their respective taxis and just sat on the benches outside, barricading us in, all lighting up and drinking their double purple gins and lemonade, hugging each other because they've not seen any one in ages.

We've not been since but seeing it out of my front window just makes me despair for the people that go.

I guess the thing with pubs is
Less risk averse people
Younger people
Drinking lowering immune system
Yes to taxis and PT etc as drink driving
Drink so someone touching glass
Needing toilets (frequently)
Point is talking to people.

Wonder how both staff got it?
Maybe food inside and outside but drinking outside. (Though foods take longer)

Testing of pub staff/goers?

Yes, the staff do not have to wear masks so can pass it on to the customers, same in shops...makes lots of sense (not)

and quite a time passed before telling people as well.

Staff could pick it up elsewhere or from one of the many customers, then pass it on

the social distancing is so that it reduces your chance of actually catching it! Still needed. Asking people to self-isolate just decreases the chances that anyone who did contract it would pass it on to others.

We had people over (against my better judgement) for a socially distanced birthday party for DH. I didn't drink, everyone else did. People went from being responsible to hugging in three hours. Not DH (he was told).

Alcohol makes people very stupid and risk-tolerant.

If staff have it there is a much higher chance of general transmission, through serving, collecting glasses, touching surfaces, chatting than the odd customer passing one another. Staff members infected may even live together.

We went for pizza recently and none of the staff were distancing or wearing masks- in fact talking loudly and closely in the kitchen, I guess due to the noise.

Leaning over us to clear plates, etc as well while signs telling us not to move except go to the loo. If one had the virus they all would I'm sure. Not that keen to go back there

House parties and pubs are high risk because you are in a small enclosed environment with people talking. Social distancing won’t help you. It’s like if someone farts in a small room, you’re all going to smell it, even 2 meters away. Tokyo has had a bad time of things lately and this has been mostly blamed on younger people meeting up for drinks. They get infected and then pass it on to their family members at home or workmates. I feel for small businesses, such as pubs, but it’s reckless to have reopened them so soon.

@Sirzy

But isn’t that why we have the tracing system which actually seems to have worked in this case. They have found a local outbreak, they have identified the source and have identified those who need to isolate as a precaution.

That's not the tracing system, that's a blanket call to isolate. The tracing system was supposed to prevent that.

This just shows our tracing system isnt. working terribly well. It's everyone who went there in a ten day window!

Wouldnt have thought all those people spent 15min with one of the staff.

Another article says they took tests despite little to no symptoms.

I thought you only needed to isolate if you were a close contact within 2 m of a confirmed case for 15 mins? I suppose if the staff get it most people will come into that category I suppose.

Still at least if the tracing system works it might help keep outbreaks more managed. This is going to be the case until there’s a vaccine I guess.

Surely they could test people after 5 days as they would likely already have it or be getting it in next 2d.
Then any of that positive person's contactd could be contacted.

I just wonder by the time people are contacted how many days have already passed since contact.

Tracing will only work where businesses are required to take individual names and contact details, and even then only if genuine. Where tables are booked by a lead name or it is a drop in, like a coffee shop or pub, it cannot work as effectively.

@Keepdistance

Surely they could test people after 5 days as they would likely already have it or be getting it in next 2d. Then any of that positive person's contactd could be contacted.

I just wonder by the time people are contacted how many days have already passed since contact.

The tracing system isn't really working, and excitingly, is working worst in the places with highest cases

Where tables are booked by a lead name or it is a drop in, like a coffee shop or pub, it cannot work as effectively
Are they not asking everyone for names and contact details? Even churches are making people book and give their contact details.
The limited research on transmission in pubs and restaurants showed that air flow (especially if exacerbated by air conditioning) meant the virus reached lots of people not just those at the same table.

Two pubs have been linked to a mini outbreak in our town as well. I think it's inevitable.

This will happen !!! We can't stay locked down or nothing to come out to, it will prob get worse but just look after yourself there is going to be around 200'000 more deaths due to lockdown .. suicides , seeming no treatment etc I am more fearful of that !!