To think the government will now have to change plans for schools

[oldbagface]

Now that masks are mandatory in shops I believe they will now have to allow them to be worn in schools. I'm thinking secondary schools here.

I didn't think they would make them mandatory in shops to avoid this but now they have, they can cannot really argue against it. Can they?

I really worry for teachers, children and parents. And if masks are necessary in shops then surely to goodness they are in schools.

Well, so far masks have been accepted in German secondary schools,
without any drama
That was from 4 May

Mask wearing is in corridors and optional in class for staff & pupils
This will stay the plan when ft schools reopen from mid-August

afaik, kids in primary schools don't need to wear masks at all,
but staff can still choose do so

However, schools here don't start until age 6 or just turned 7
So the youngest students are a bit more mature.

As the op I've found this interesting. One poster suggested the government will relax the mask wearing in shops before September. She knows the behaviour of this shyster government well.

I would also like to clarify that I have one DC still at school who has Sen.

Something has to be done. We can't just wing it.

Speaking with our school senco, we agreed that many Sen kids are enjoying home learning and find it easier as they don't have to have all the stress that comes with interaction, pressure, so on. My DC told me it is much better and DC is so much happier. So perhaps home learning for those who can. It cuts the numbers in the school building.

I knew a teacher who sadly died of this and she was my age. It was early on in the pandemic.

Something has to give.

They’ve been careful to talk about places where you come across people you don’t normally meet - presumably to rule out schools for now. If they bring them in in offices it would seem more relevant to schools.

100% this. This was my first thought, they are wording it very carefully so they can keep no masks in schools

It's not an ideal situation for younger children. But it's also not idea for those children who have vulnerable parents and will have no protection from September. And vulnerable staff or their vulnerable family members. If more people wear masks, perhaps the virus will die out sooner and the mask wearing will be shorter in duration.

@Dorual, exactly.
I'm sure everyone would love to go back to normal and not have any adjustments to make. But for vulnerable people it's not about "liking" masks, being "uncomfortable" or social skills.
It's about life/death. Dying, taking home the virus that's going to kill one of your parents, a sibling, nan.
Death is final, you can't catch up, you can't get used to it. None of the other inconveniences compares, and for many many forgotten people, children, parents, teachers, that's the situation they will be in from September.

I am a teacher and I really don't want to wear ppe to work.
I am not in a vulnerable category and I am claustrophobic. I know ppe for all is goong to be the beat way to protect everyone but it's not practical and I can't teach my subject. Surely come September cases will be low enough for this not to be necessary?

Weird that parents who are nervous about sending kids back have been bashed and berated for considering home schooling for weeks. But now many are saying they’d rather do that than wear a mask. Perhaps we should be more considerate of each other’s wishes going forward and realise we all have different wishes and needs. I’d send my kids in. Mask but absolutely understand why some parents feel against it. Similarly my sister who is highly vulnerable and very worried about sending her son bank said masks would provide her confidence to do so. Kids in mask wearing countries wear them all the time, they can do it. Do understand people’s concerns though.

My child has high functioning autism and is at a mainstream secondary school - there is no way he would be able to keep a mask on and I certainly won’t make him.

So throughout lock down, parents were moaning about teachers not working, children being off and missing time huge gaps of learning. Now all of a sudden, when the mask issue appears, loads of parents are going to homeschool?!?
Do it then! Take your children out if they need to wear a mask to protect others. FFS

We are a shielding household.

I agree with @oldbagface

There are 90,000 currently shielded children. It is very hard to think of them goiing into close proximity of unmasked people

Take your children out if they need to wear a mask to protect others

That's in effect removing those exceptionally vulnerable and most isolated of all children. Though the letter says that handwashing and distancing should be practiced where they are 'where possible'

It is really shit to be dismissed out of hand.

(Agree that the risks are different, that we are a side issue which might need special treatment, it's the casual 'keep,away' which saddens me)

I think all school staff should be provided with visors for them to wear if they wish.

Ds has a full time 1-1 and this was discussed at our recent meeting. Ds struggles to communicate and not being able to see faces really makes that harder for him. His 1-1 won’t be wearing a face covering for most of the day but will be wearing a visor when she does his feed (tube fed) because she has to get close to him to do it. She seemed happy with that plan and it’s one that will hopefully mean he can attend school.

DD already will have to wear a mask for her 45 minute school commute on a cramped bus there and back. The thought she may need to wear a mask for 6 hours at school too makes me so sad. I'm not against masks, I've been wearing one to shop since March as has DH, but DD has aspergers and she just wouldn't cope. Don't know what the answer is really but we're asking an awful lot of teachers.

Visors for teachers not masks . It’s really hard to communicate when both are wearing masks - I’ve had many a comical exchange in a shop ! Then I end up having to write something out using a pen that dozens have used before ! I am totally supportive of mask wearing but I can’t see it working well in a teaching environment. I think secondary kids would comply though so maybe teacher in visor and kids in masks is best. My DD would do far better being at school mental health wise even with a mask. They’re all there together, they’d adjust easily. If this was introduced I’d support it.

Matt Hancock says no point in masks in offices or schools as once you're with someone for more than 15 minutes you'll likely catch it anyway!! No wonder offices are wfh as long as they possibly can. Outrageous! www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53415030

If they bring them in in offices it would seem more relevant to schools.

Everyone I know who works in offices are socially distancing at work and have strict protocols in place including for any meetings between colleagues or clients.

Many are still not in full time - most I know are in the office part time and working from home part time wherever possible. Desks have been moved around to ensure they are at least 2m apart plus wherever possible they are back to back so no one faces one another. They've got additional cleaning regimes - not done my their office staff - and communal,areas have been restricted. There are hand sanitizers everywhere. Portable and full screens have been installed in many areas. One way routes around the offices are in place. Client meetings are being done remotely where possible otherwise in large open meeting rooms with people say more than 2m apart. They've also got masks, gloves and visors available to them, provided by the firms, for if needed.

None of my office based friends are in rooms of 30+ people in a cramped busy room with no social distancing.

www.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/news/your-mask-cuts-own-risk-65-percent/

Masks protect the wearer as well as everyone else. If 80% of children and staff in schools wore masks that would protect everyone, including anyone that couldn't wear masks (of course there are some who will not be able to).

Teaching children to wear masks properly will obviously have to be taught, just as proper hand washing has been taught. There are also children who cannot do handwashing all the time (e.g. with very bad eczema whose skin will bleed if they wash their hands too often) but if the majority do it you still achieve huge reductions in transmission of infection. Public health is all about getting the majority who are able to do things to protect everyone.

Masks in schools is normal in many parts of the world and the children cope fine. This idea that it's hard on children to wear masks refuses to acknowledge that children whose parents are chronically ill following covid or who die from covid are much worse affected and how well we control the virus directly affects how many children will be bereaved or have seriously ill parents. Also, many children are anxious at the idea of going back to school without infection control measures (like masks) in place.

Lots of universities have mandated masks in their buildings. So it does seem that schools are the one outlier.

Also: surgeons manage to communicate with a team when completing complex surgery for hours when they, and all staff, are wearing masks. Perhaps we need some advice from doctors on how they manage this when so many people seem to be reporting doing basic shopping as too complicated in a mask.

Have been out and about recently with lots of masks, plus encountered them in various settings in japan last summer. I also speak with a number of women with face coverings over their mouths via work. No issues with communication in terms of understanding and hearing people speaking, even DH who has dodgy hearing at the best of times.

Obviously this won't be the case for people who lip read, etc but for the vast majority of people communication should not be an issue.

I'm in Berlin and just got the info on how DS is to restart in August if things continue the way they do:
regular lessons, assessments on where to restart, extra curriculars to restart with special provisions for theatre and choir (I assume outside). First day celebrations can go ahead observing hygiene rules.

hygiene rules: wear a mask if requested or if you feel better with it, wash your hands and air classrooms often, go outside if possible, no sd but avoid close contact if possible.

People at risk or posing a risk need a certificate from their GP and may continue home education (supervised).

DS (AS) is not happy, he liked to work online and saved about 1,5 h on the commute and got better results

My son is secondary age but at special schools. Masks wouldn't work at his school because a large number of pupils are non verbal, don't understand much speech and rely on facial expression to understand and for reassurance. They are trying staff with visors but many of the young people touch and hit them or pull them off. They are all in small primary style bubbles and the young people are always supervised and do not socialise in the way NT teenagers do so there is less risk there.

At secondary, maybe. I suspect few kids would want to wear a mask from 8.30am to 3.30pm. They are pretty uncomfortable.
What about PE and lunchtime?

At primary I think it is pointless . I've been teaching my DD age 9 to wear a mask and it is not easy. She fiddles, pulls it down to sip from her water bottle. There's no way she could wear it all day.

I do understand the idea of everyone wearing masks, and will not object to it, but I do also think it could be counterproductive for children to wear them, as they will not be able to resist touching them/their faces with them on. I wore a mask in public for the first time yesterday getting me used to it, and I must say, I couldn't stop fiddling and adjusting mine while in the shop, as I'm not used to wearing one. Usually I will not under any circumstances touch my face while out and about, but with the mask on, that rule went out the window. It makes me wonder if even adults wearing them could actually prove to be counterproductive. I tried to gel my hands as much as possible as I was aware I kept adjusting the mask. 😬 Maybe I will get used to wearing one over time, and not feel the need to touch/adjust it...

Children touch their faces without masks. Plus pick their noses and suck their fingers. And cough into the air, and have messy sneezes. So even with mask fiddling, it's still safer to wear masks.

"Masks protect the wearer as well as everyone else. If 80% of children and staff in schools wore masks that would protect everyone,"
They kind of masks the public are being asked to wear do not provide full protection from the virus particles. That is why they also ask us to continue maintaining social distancing. They aren't a substitute for keeping our distance.
They wiil provide some but not total protection as you are still breathing in and out through the non medical standard ones.