To think the government will now have to change plans for schools

[oldbagface]

Now that masks are mandatory in shops I believe they will now have to allow them to be worn in schools. I'm thinking secondary schools here.

I didn't think they would make them mandatory in shops to avoid this but now they have, they can cannot really argue against it. Can they?

I really worry for teachers, children and parents. And if masks are necessary in shops then surely to goodness they are in schools.

If a student has a hearing impediment, asd or even English second language a mask could impair understanding. Visors or clear masks are a possible solution for lip reading/facial expressions. Every single person in the room would need to wear a securely fitting mask for them to be of any significant help, and for hours they are hot, uncomfortable and if you wear glasses they steam up

But not doing anything, vulnerable families will be at risk. It's life/ death. And if I have to start my child wearing masks every now and then to get used to it for the greater good then that's what I'll do.

I don't understand why British people are so het up on masks and masks for children? In other countries people just get on with it.

What are the current rules in other European countries?

April - "French school children aged 11-18 should wear masks to help curb the spread of the coronavirus, the scientific council advising the government..."
"It added that staff at both French "colleges" and "lycees" - dealing with children aged 11 to 18 - should also wear masks, although it said it was impossible to get the youngest of schoolchildren, aged for example from 4 to 11, to do so."

The BMA suggests differently to the government about masks in schools: 'For someone, not wearing a face covering, and who has the virus or is a carrier, the risk of transmitting the virus to another person close by is 70%. By the carrier wearing a covering, that drops to just 5%. If a carrier and healthy person both wear masks, the probability of transmitting the virus is just 1.5%

Reuters ran a fact check on this;

VERDICT
"Partly false:There is no data available to quantify risk reduction from the use of masks but they are recommended by some authorities, including the CDC in the United States, as a supplementary measure to strengthen other preventive steps such as social distancing and frequent handwashing."

www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-mask-efficacy/partly-false-claim-wear-a-face-mask-covid-19-risk-reduced-by-up-to-98-5-idUSKCN2252T6

@Dorual

Well home-school then. Staff and other children and their families shouldn't be put at risk because mask wearing is uncomfortable.

Its nothing to do with being uncomfortable. Its about the loss of social skills in very young children. The proven possibility that wearing one would make her more susceptible to catching the illness due to inappropriate use (as someone else said, they constantly touch their face as it is). There is a reason guidelines say under 11s dont need them (even in a shop). So yes - I would "home school" then as you put it. When community transmission is so low and other measures are in place, she won't be wearing one. (On the other hand I'm more than happy to as an adult, in a shop if that is proven to help other people potentially).

I don't know what the big deal is - I am sure in South Korea all the kids and staff wear masks. I know they're used to it - but the UK can get used to it as well?

@oldbagface

Now that masks are mandatory in shops I believe they will now have to allow them to be worn in schools. I'm thinking secondary schools here.

I didn't think they would make them mandatory in shops to avoid this but now they have, they can cannot really argue against it. Can they?

I really worry for teachers, children and parents. And if masks are necessary in shops then surely to goodness they are in schools.

Slow down! You’ll confuse Boris. You’re applying way too much common sense....

Plus it would throw up far too many awkward questions.

Who pays for them?
How many would a child need (given they should change them regularly especially after food/drink)?
How long do they work for?
Ie would they be effective enough for 6 hours in a classroom environment?
Would less children and social distancing be safer?

I work in a factory with 250 other people. Weve been told we dont have to wear masks. Hows that different to a school?

Masks in infant school will be a complete nightmare. Lining 30 children up to wash hands 6 times a day is time consuming enough. Trying to get hot lunches delivered to classrooms is another difficulty. But 30 5 year olds twiddling and fiddling with masks and fussing with them would send me over the edge.

I think masks for young children are counterproductive in terms of preventing the virus, so there will be an uncomfortable sort of grey area where children spread the virus around but realistically can't be stopped - called a primary school!

@Rowgtfc72 because either your employer has 2 m between employees, or because they're breaking the law?

Op specifically said secondary.

I think some subjects will be very tricky with masks - music, drama, pe etc which would render it all meaningless within a day or two. Bubbles, which they are already planning, makes more sense to me.

We're sticking to the 2m rule. As much as you can on a production line. And have plastic screens. Early on in this we were told masks weren't necessary.
Dd chooses her GCSE options when she goes back. She would like to do Music (voice) and performing arts. Cant see that working well with masks.

@justanother me too would rather keep my child at home wearing a mask will not be good for children's mental health

@justanotherneighinparadise

My reception aged child wore one recently in hospital and afterwards he said he hates hospitals because of the mask. I would worry a lot about these little ones just bring thoroughly miserable and if that was the way forward I’d have to think very hard about home schooling as an alternative.

I have a toddler who hates hospital too, in his case because he has had eight operations due to his rare respiratory condition.

He couldn’t wear a mask because of the same condition, but if teenagers in secondary school did, it would contribute to keeping community transmission low. This benefits everyone.

Children are more resilient than we think. My older DS, who is 6, wears a mask in the shops because he wants to. He has seen me wearing mine and I explained that it helps to protect people who aren’t as young and healthy as we are. Part of being a community. He now chooses to wear one.

This is what we're up against in schools.

The idea behind bubbles was to keep a consistent group together so this kind of measure isn't needed. I can see the point for secondary school kids in hallways moving between lessons if need be, but primary … not only would it make it so difficult to communicate, with under tens every third sentence would be "put your mask back on/take it off your foot/don't hit your friend with it/please don't ping your rubber across the room with it" interspersed with the younger ones swapping them, leaving them in the playground and dropping them down the toilet.

Bit that's different. He's with his mum and has your complete attention. He's not having to concentrate, put his hand up to answer questions, socialise with his peers, communicate in a cramped classroom etc. Masks are absolutely incompatible with infant teaching. I have a year R bubble and we'd really struggle with masks.

Primary aged children should not be wearing them. The impact on communication is too great.

Secondary aged should probably be wearing them BUT I forsee them causing more problems than they solve!

I agree that primary school children should not be wearing them. But secondary is a whole other matter.

Crosspost with Angelina

OP said she was thinking of secondary schools, where the pupils are becoming adult-sized and may well get the adult pattern of disease. Which is unlikely to be lethal in younger adults but can make people very ill for several weeks. They are also more likely to be contagious on the adult pattern.

I think masks would be a very good idea for this age - especially when on full specialist teaching for their GCSE and A level, hoices and have to move between groups (ditto earlier in the school if pupils are settled, not streamed)

I expect with another couple of months of data, and everyone more used to wearing masks, the position will evolve.

Especially as the cohorts going in to years 11 and 13 are already badly disrupted.

@Useruseruserusee

Children are more resilient than we think. My older DS, who is 6, wears a mask in the shops because he wants to. He has seen me wearing mine and I explained that it helps to protect people who aren’t as young and healthy as we are. Part of being a community. He now chooses to wear one.

"some" children. Some find them terrifying. SEN kids especially. And kids shouldnt have to be resilient - thats our job as parents to make them not need to be at such a young age. Stepping stones? Lost shoes - fine, be resilient and not have a meltdown. Strapping a mask to their face to stop germs? no thanks.

Definitely think visors instead of masks for teachers purely from the speaking/teaching aspect is more engaging to be able to see the mouth moving, especially MFL they couldn't possibly teach that behind a mask could they?
Ideal world masks for the students, even if it was only whilst walking through corridors between classes as a minimum but how easy it would be to ensure and enforce 100% hundreds of teenagers who can be rebellious by nature. How many wouldn't wear it to get sent home or conveniently have left their masks at home ? Good idea in theory, how practical it is I'm not sure

Teachers would have to wear transparent visors, otherwise nobody would understand them, especially young children trying to learn phonics. Primary school children should not have to wear them, if it was mandatory my child wouldn't be going back.