Asking too much of teachers?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

It's looking like masks are going to be a requirement in shops and possibly other indoor venues.

Yet teachers are expected to teach - for hours at a time - in confined, poorly ventilated spaces, with no social distancing. They have been told they do not need PPE. If I was still teaching there is no way I'd go into a room crowded with teenagers and not wear a mask at the moment.

Teachers should be allowed as much protection as possible not thrown under a corona bus because Johnson wants them for child care so their parents can go back to work.

I really can't understand why it's going to be compulsory in shops where meetings are fleeting but not in schools which are crowded and have people crammed in for hours.

Does the right of children to go back to school over rule the rights of of school staff (teaching and ancillary) to be as protected as possible?

This means they should be allowed to wear PPE, if they choose, and secondary children should be wearing masks as happens in some other countries. In some countries younger children also have to wear masks in school.

The safety of teachers has been ignored by Johnson and his chums in their urge to get people back to work and the cry of "back to normal" is taken up by those ignorant of the facts about the virus.

Teachers have been made out to be the bad guys almost from the beginning - as can be seen from many bile infested threads on here. They deserve better.

Teachers can stand at at the front of their class, behind their desk, teach and be at least 2 metres safely away from the pupils. Some people are really over reacting about this, our children need to get back to school full time in September.

Hahahaha. Spot the person who's never been in a classroom full of 6 year olds...or a tiny room stuffed with 30 pupils.

If I was a teacher I would just wear my own mask - surely they can't stop you? People wear masks in shops and on public transport and so do health care workers. Don't see what the problem is?

I am a secondary school teacher. Amongst many concerns already mentioned on this thread, I would like to know why I am going to have to teach A level students (not four year olds, actual adults) in a room too small for distancing with windows that don’t open. I will not be permitted to wear PPE or even put a fucking scarf over my mouth. How is this legal? Can someone explain? Can someone explain to me why my health, well being and actual life is of less worth than everyone else who goes out to work? I’ve been teaching for over two decades now. I’ve worked hard, with a positive outlook and the best interests of other people’s children at heart. This is my reward, is it?

@ZombieFan my classroom is a standard sort of size for a primary. If I mark out a 2m space around my desk and the whiteboard, about 1/3 of the room is taken out and I can't fit all the children in. Next suggestion please.

Apologies to primary school teachers, I was referring to secondary schools where teachers can stand at the front of the class.

Obviously in primary schools they will have a class bubble.

You’re still talking bollocks, Zombiefan.

Literally no way I can stand at the front of my class 2m away from them.

From what I've read, visors on their own don't help much.

why not, dont you and your pupils have desks?

Not 2m worth of desk, no. How big do you think desks are??

I am presuming that you are being sarcastic? The risk is not to the children, it is to the adults who work with them, and those in the community that the children spread the infection to

Not necessarily @cantkeepawayforever
Ds is 10, and caught covid back in March, and it affected him pretty badly. He couldn’t walk further than from his bed to the sofa for 3 weeks. And then couldn’t handle more than a short walk round then block for the next month. He’s still under the gp’s watch now as he’s still having odd symptoms on and off. I know others both in Mumsnet and in real life whose children have had similar issues.

I should say, ds has no underlying medical issues. Barely even caught a cold in the last few years.

I wish with my whole heart that wasn’t the case, but people can’t say there’s no risk to children. I work in a secondary school so I also worry about my students

But I do totally agree with the rest of your post that children can and will spread the virus further and to more vulnerable people.

My school has chosen year groups. There will be 61 of us in my bubble all the time plus visiting PPA staff, music teachers and sports coaches who work with all the other bubbles too. Plus my year group bubble has siblings in the local secondary school plus most of the bubbles in my school.
Then my dh (who is 63 btw) is in his supersized secondary bubble and ds is in his year group primary bubble too.
Cases are low in my area at the moment so I'll just have to hope and keep my fingers crossed.
Oh, there was a case in dh's school this week though...

Teachers are at high risk. So are the parents of teenagers.

@ZombieFan

Around 550 a day people are catching the virus, out of a population of 68 million. So that is 1 in 125000 people catching it a day! Schools dont return for another 2 months, when the number will be even lower.

The virus is much better understood now, their are several treatments and very few people are dying from it are very LOW. Transmission in the community is VERY low.

Teachers can stand at at the front of their class, behind their desk, teach and be at least 2 metres safely away from the pupils. Some people are really over reacting about this, our children need to get back to school full time in September.

Are you Gavin Williamson?!

You have NO idea , none at all.

@ZombieFan

Apologies to primary school teachers, I was referring to secondary schools where teachers can stand at the front of the class.

Obviously in primary schools they will have a class bubble.

Due to the three extra double desk that have been crammed into my room (secondary school) over the past six years, the distance between myself and the pupils at the front of my room is between 0.5-1 metre. There’s nowhere in my room where I can be more than that away from a pupil. This is true for a lot of secondary school classrooms these days unfortunately.

Do the teachers who have decided to wear masks have a plan in place for children with hearing loss? My eldest has,some hearing loss and relies party on clear voices and partly on lip reading. I have asked the school but can't even get an answer on if the staff are wearing masks.
Also no answer on if children should be,wearing a mask. My autistic daughter freaked out when I tried to get her to wear one for a doctors appointment. Luckily the doctor said not to worry but I'm worried about school.
I'm glad I'm not a teacher but no simple answers.

The parents and families are a real worry. They are at risk too.

In my school at the moment many children have told me of instances where they have broken lockdown/distancing rules. Families seem to be making decisions based on the risk to their own households and not considering the potential risk to the households of every child that their child shares a classroom with.

I do hope that people are taking on board that their children will be exposed to 100’s of households and each of those households workplaces, transport and social lives (pubs are open) every day.

I hope it’s sinking in that your children should not be anywhere near your parents for at least until next spring.

Teachers will not in good conscience be able to see their parents, in fact no one with children should be going anywhere near older or obese people or anyone with diabetes or heart or respiratory problems. Bloody awkward if you live in the same house.

If it’s safe for teachers to be shut in a 4m square room with 30 16 year olds then it’s safe to open clubs and have pubs and restaurants back to full capacity. If it’s safe for teachers and our children then it’s safe for everyone surely?

Why bother to cancel Glastonbury or report illegal raves of 200 people if it’s fine for 1500 kids and 200 staff to cram into a building for six hours a day after travelling in from multiple counties? Why ban visitors to care homes? Why not treat people in hospital who were due to be seen months ago?

If it’s safe for teachers and students why not everyone else?

I've been critical of teachers on other threads as I dont think some of them have been putting in much effort for the last 4 months This is a completely different topic and I dont see it as unreasonable for secondary school teachers to wear a visor (not masks) in their lessons if they are concerned and if they can be procured.

I'm more concerned about the breakdown in the national curriculum and schools churning out a generation of dummies, unable to compete with (already) superior educated children in other countries which don't have the same dogmatic teaching unions as here.

I was going to say that this isn't an insurmountable problem, schools in other countries have been going back for months with no notable issues.

If the unions are so powerful, how have teachers been dropped in the shit like this?

Surely some must be revising their opinion of who actually holds responsibility for what has been going on in schools?

2 teachers in my primary school are resigning. I think there will be a lot of resignations across the board.

Dogmatic unions? Do you see any other profession being forced into crowded conditions with 1000 plus people and no social distancing or ppe?

That’s about as toothless as a union can be. Bus drivers have secured more protection, thank goodness as they suffered needless deaths because of lack of protection.

Look deeper at those other countries and how sought after teaching roles are, ask yourself why when we have such a shortage, look at the physical environment of their schools, their funding levels and the amount of tax citizens are willing to pay for good public services. Look at the respect given to the profession and the levels of investment government thinks young people are worthy of.

It’s beyond a red herring to point at unions

I think it would be sensible for teachers to wear visors for their own comfort.
Community transmission is very low in most parts of the country now, while under-25s are far less likely to catch coronavirus and people with milder symptoms (which children often have) seem to be less likely to spread it; taken altogether that makes classroom risks pretty low. There's a chart of cases by age here, it's a very similar pattern in every country around the world: coronavirus.data.gov.uk/. Teachers really need to be given the numbers on this because from this thread it looks like lots of teachers really think that children are as likely to transmit covid as adults. Lots of transmission in schools has been between teachers and admin staff, if teachers aren't able to understand where their risk actually lies at work then it could get worse.

Not 2m worth of desk, no. How big do you think desks are??

Surely a teachers desk must be close to 1m wide with at least a 50cm gap before the pupils desks of 50cm? That is 2m easily. And all that is needed to be safe is 1m (according to the WHO).

Teachers ma be 'at risk' but I cant see how its high risk. At best looking at the data, it is low risk.

Pupils' desks are normally banged up to the teacher's desk to cram as many in as possible. Staying behind your desk leads to really poor behaviour management anyway.