Asking too much of teachers?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

It's looking like masks are going to be a requirement in shops and possibly other indoor venues.

Yet teachers are expected to teach - for hours at a time - in confined, poorly ventilated spaces, with no social distancing. They have been told they do not need PPE. If I was still teaching there is no way I'd go into a room crowded with teenagers and not wear a mask at the moment.

Teachers should be allowed as much protection as possible not thrown under a corona bus because Johnson wants them for child care so their parents can go back to work.

I really can't understand why it's going to be compulsory in shops where meetings are fleeting but not in schools which are crowded and have people crammed in for hours.

Does the right of children to go back to school over rule the rights of of school staff (teaching and ancillary) to be as protected as possible?

This means they should be allowed to wear PPE, if they choose, and secondary children should be wearing masks as happens in some other countries. In some countries younger children also have to wear masks in school.

The safety of teachers has been ignored by Johnson and his chums in their urge to get people back to work and the cry of "back to normal" is taken up by those ignorant of the facts about the virus.

Teachers have been made out to be the bad guys almost from the beginning - as can be seen from many bile infested threads on here. They deserve better.

@peasaregood

can someone please show me where these outbreaks have been reported

There you go... more if you search...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-53151035

Completely agree OP.

Masks can also be worn in primary schools as they do in other countries.

Children at be at low risk from COVID but they do get it and they do pass it on.
Teachers deserve the same protection as everyone else.

I am a TA (Yr R). I often need to perform intimate care. I work in a classroom where the windows do not open and there is no sink. The children cannot physically distance.

My life matters to me, my 4 children and my DH. Why don't I get the protection that commuters, office workers, shop workers etc get?

And don't get me started on the anti-maskers! We need to remember this virus can and does KILL. Rates are increasing again and already so many have died, we need to do whatever we can to keep infection rates down, to prevent our NHS being overwhelmed and to give us time to find more treatments. Wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience that we can get use to if we try.

Oh and I don't get why teachers aren't lauded like other key workers. We have worked throughout lockdown keeping schools open for the vulnerable children and key worker children, putting ourselves at risk working in enclosed, poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing and not allowed to wear masks. Instead teachers are seen as somehow at fault for the lockdown.

We don’t sit in one place and by the way teachers desks and the students desks are mostly adjoining. With a depth of 60cm that’s clearly short. Also the door through which 30 kids cram into the room is not 2m from the teacher’s desk and there is no way to help individual students who don’t want to loudly announce their problem to the whole class from 2m away.

Not sure why people think we’re lying. Try finding a desk with 1m depth on ikea or Argos

Extension task: work out how to seat 30+ kids in a 4m x 3m classroom with a door at 2m from the teacher

I think the way teachers are being treated is disgraceful.

Bozo & Co. just want everyone back to work to get the economy moving and schools are the child minding service. Parents will be going to work in offices and shops with clear guidelines to protect staff, whereas teachers, who will be spending their days with societies greatest virus spreaders, get zero protection at all.

I genuinely worry for my son's teacher, who is severely obese and has an elderly parent living with her who is very ill. Why doesn't she matter as much as someone sitting behind a screen at a supermarket till?

DIfferentiation: all will understand this is incredibly difficult
Most will understand the guidance doesn’t fit with the realities of classrooms
Some will understand chronic underfunding and undervaluing of education has left us up shit creek without a paddle

A rare few won’t give a shit whatever facts you give them

I am shielding at the moment, with severe asthma.
I am due to go back in September just like everyone else. To say that I am worried is an understatement.
I believe my (secondary) school would be happy for staff to wear masks/visors. However, whether I wear a mask or not is mostly pointless because masks are there to prevent spewing droplets into the air if you have the disease. They do not fully protect someone from getting it.
I will be working with older teenagers, who would pretty much be considered adults. I wouldn’t dare go into a pub and haven’t even been in a shop since lockdown began. Soon, it looks like mask wearing will be compulsory in these kind of places. What’s the difference between that and going into a classroom of unmasked young adults?
It unfortunately seems that shielded and vulnerable staff like me are just being treated as collateral.

Surely a teachers desk must be close to 1m wide with at least a 50cm gap before the pupils desks of 50cm?

What? Your personal incredulity trumps teachers actual experience of their classrooms? Do you think we’re complaining about nothing?

No, my desk isn’t a metre wide and no, there isn’t a 50cm gap before the pupil desk. As it happens, the pupil desk is pushed right against my desk. But it’s also at the side of the classroom. When I’m stood at my whiteboard, the kids desks are closer to me than the one pinned behind my desk.

Surely if the use of masks is going to be mandatory these guidelines will be updated. Having said that they are only guidelines so surely individual schools can have their own policies.

No, my desk isn’t a metre wide and no, there isn’t a 50cm gap before the pupil desk. As it happens, the pupil desk is pushed right against my desk
Well I apologise for my ignorance then. I was only going on what my DCs state school is like.

Dh's secondary school don't have desks for teachers - they are expected/need to walk round all the time to police behaviour (London Academy comp)

I don't see how 32 students jammed together in a classroom without opening windows is low risk either

It's like KID SOUP

Well I apologise for my ignorance then.

Thank you. Do you also accept that teachers might have valid concerns then?

Why aren't teaching unions up in arms about teaching staff not being allowed to wear masks? Sheffield & several other areas are only just short of going back in to lockdown, public health are frankly shitting themselves & there are moves afoot to start bringing in rules to control it again. I'm not a teacher, I'm a parent of a 16 year old who is due to start back in sixth form in September, his school is built for 1800 pupils but due to overcrowding has 2180 pupils, there isn't room for social distancing. I'm disabled & while not falling in a shielding group would end up in hospital should I contract Covid, we are at present living with my 81 year old mum & the last thing neither me or my ds want is to pass Covid on to her.

Why are teachers being required to do dinner duty? Teachers fought long and hard to get a dinner break and dinner duty should be optional. It worries me if this is the expectation.

Please also spare a thought for those of us working in nursery settings. We get covered in a disgusting amount of bodily fluids in a day, working with different children each day, so our bubble is effectively huge, and our 7.30 to 6.30 day has been extended to 7am to 8pm just so that we can fit the extra cleaning in. We don't have cleaners, the entire place is cleaned by practitioners, even in normal times. We are only allowed to wear an apron and gloves when changing nappies or dealing with toileting, no other PPE at all. No social distancing. We are hugely at risk and only get paid minimum wage for the privilege. I adore my job and the children, but with myself and my child having health issues, the risk is very worrying.

Here’s my union’s letter to Gavin Williamson. www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/d238b930-fafa-4f94-ae2672f1fa51baea.pdf

People keep talking about the dogmatic teaching unions ‘kicking off’ and ‘holding the government to ransom’. Well you can read for yourself and decide if it’s unreasonable.

@CallmeAngelina

In March no-one shopping had to wear a mask, it seems silly to bring it in now Actually, I disagree. We have (mostly) been isolating since March, with less scope for contracting the virus. Now that we are cautiously stepping back towards a more normal life, then masks are a good idea to reduce transmission (if the "success/efficiency" rates are to be believed).

Couldn't agree more with this!

@LilMissRe

Secondary school teacher. It breaks my heart to listen to the public at large dismiss our concerns. If everyone else is 'advised' to work from home, why is it that teachers have to come in? Each of my non teaching friends have described how their workplaces have gone above and beyond to ensure covid secure workspaces- with only 50% of workers in the building at any one time. How is it that the general public believe that zero social distancing (I'm in Wales) in schools is acceptable at all?

Every sector is implementing social distancing and are trying to ensure the safety of their staff- why are we teachers treated like pond life?

Because as we have seen, teachers can't effectively teach from home!

Thank you. Do you also accept that teachers might have valid concerns then?

Yes I accept that some teachers do have valid concerns. So I hope everyone can come to a workable solution so that schools can reopen in September.
However I still think it is still premature for anyone to quit their job over this given we are 2 months away from opening schools to everyone and infections are falling every day/week.

How could I teach languages wearing a mask? I'm also claustrophobic.
If teachers want to wear masks, fine. I really don't want to. I am not in a vulnerable category.

What happens if teachers wear masks and pupils haven't a clue what they are saying?

What is wearing face coverings increase your changes of catching the virus?

However I still think it is still premature for anyone to quit their job over this given we are 2 months away from opening schools to everyone and infections are falling every day/week.

Even if you resign now, it's likely you won't leave until Christmas. Personally I'm going to see how the first half term is and take it from there.

My desk is 72cm one way and 55cm the other. Kids desks are against it, and it's on its side at the side of the room so I can get to my Whiteboard. Like noble, I'm less than 1m away from students when I'm at the board. Thank Michael Gove for reducing the space needed when building classrooms.

@Allmyeye

Why are teachers being required to do dinner duty? Teachers fought long and hard to get a dinner break and dinner duty should be optional. It worries me if this is the expectation.

I will be required to do a daily morning duty, daily break duty and a daily dinner duty. I’ve said up thread the thought of having a 20 minute break from 8-4 (and going from 8-12.40) worries me. And yes I know it’s legal and no, I can’t pop to the toilet - that’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. I will be physically exhausted from moving around to teach pupils, I no longer have a classroom so I will be carrying a laptop, my bag, books etc with me at all times. Each dept has a workroom but if my lessons are now on the other side of the school I will have to take everything I need for the day with me as I can’t pop back for this either.

Physically and mentally I worry as a menopausal woman that I will flood in front of a class as I haven’t had a break to change. Could you imagine as a teenager seeing your teacher become a bloody mess? That story will be feasted in for years. Tbh staying 2m apart from pupils has been the least on my mind since our school’s guidance has been published. What I’m expected to do for the illusion of a bubble protection is nonsensical as pupils come to school via bus and train and Im sure not socially distancing outside school. Suddenly they become magically immune within it though.

And in answer to any we’re doing it it’s for staggered breaks and ensuring classes are kept apart, keeping to their schedule, ensuring orderly toilet queues and food queues, and not running into zones where they don’t belong.

@ZombieFan

why not, dont you and your pupils have desks?

Our school doesn't have teacher's desks. They are more like lecterns really, to the side of the whiteboard. Enough room to stand behind, but certainly not 2 metres away from the front row of desks. The only time I have ever taught from the front for entire lessons is when I was heavily pregnant. I've been teaching 20+ years and always teach from different parts of the room and circulate often to help students with their work. I'm horrified about the no mask/ no social distancing/ lack of concern for students and teachers. I'm very pleased to be off on maternity leave at the moment, but worried for my colleagues.