Asking too much of teachers?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

It's looking like masks are going to be a requirement in shops and possibly other indoor venues.

Yet teachers are expected to teach - for hours at a time - in confined, poorly ventilated spaces, with no social distancing. They have been told they do not need PPE. If I was still teaching there is no way I'd go into a room crowded with teenagers and not wear a mask at the moment.

Teachers should be allowed as much protection as possible not thrown under a corona bus because Johnson wants them for child care so their parents can go back to work.

I really can't understand why it's going to be compulsory in shops where meetings are fleeting but not in schools which are crowded and have people crammed in for hours.

Does the right of children to go back to school over rule the rights of of school staff (teaching and ancillary) to be as protected as possible?

This means they should be allowed to wear PPE, if they choose, and secondary children should be wearing masks as happens in some other countries. In some countries younger children also have to wear masks in school.

The safety of teachers has been ignored by Johnson and his chums in their urge to get people back to work and the cry of "back to normal" is taken up by those ignorant of the facts about the virus.

Teachers have been made out to be the bad guys almost from the beginning - as can be seen from many bile infested threads on here. They deserve better.

I should have been clearer than hilarious and just said I don’t believe you. This is the last time I’ll reply to you.

Anyone telling experienced maths teachers to resign when my son hasn’t had a maths teacher with English as a first, or even competent, language or who has been able to stick it out for more than a term, for the last 2years is not worthy of response.

yep, just read it again and still says the majority cleaning after others include teachers.
Quite an easy little sentence really

Someone else came up with the perfect solution.

Remember all those parents who wanted to volunteer and help with reading etc?

Let's do a national drive. Get volunteers in as cleaners. With less movement of students it should be a bit easier to implement now than it was. Between lessons they can walk around mopping floors etc of corridors as well as cleaning the toilets etc.

Secondary schools could also use them like "librarians". They are based on each floor for all that floors work. Teacher then doesn't have to carry a whole day stuff. End of the lesson, all the stuff handed over to parent volunteer.

Not fool proof and wouldn't work for all schools. I mean didn't that happen with the nhs drive, those out of retirement etc did other roles not essentially with patients or alone etc. Would let school staff do their jobs with the budgets they have. And of course a lot of schools have CCTV in their open areas like corridors etc so they could be monitored.

@canigooutyet

Someone else came up with the perfect solution.

Remember all those parents who wanted to volunteer and help with reading etc?

Let's do a national drive. Get volunteers in as cleaners. With less movement of students it should be a bit easier to implement now than it was. Between lessons they can walk around mopping floors etc of corridors as well as cleaning the toilets etc.

Secondary schools could also use them like "librarians". They are based on each floor for all that floors work. Teacher then doesn't have to carry a whole day stuff. End of the lesson, all the stuff handed over to parent volunteer.

Not fool proof and wouldn't work for all schools. I mean didn't that happen with the nhs drive, those out of retirement etc did other roles not essentially with patients or alone etc. Would let school staff do their jobs with the budgets they have. And of course a lot of schools have CCTV in their open areas like corridors etc so they could be monitored.

Then the teachers that dont want to clean their own school can volunteer and clean the schools their kids go to?

Anyone telling experienced maths teachers to resign when my son hasn’t had a maths teacher with English as a first, or even competent, language

I said that?
Must have been sleeptyping again as I have no recollection at all of even mentioning resignation on any thread.
Weird

@canigooutyet

That suggestion is far too pragmatic And idealistic for this thread

No, marsha. It's actually not a real terms increase either. I imagine many heads will sue it to insist teachers do after school stuff after cleaning the toilet and to pay sixth formers minimum wage type money to tutor some kids ineffectively.

Sorry to be so cynical. But the IFS worked out that it was a TINY amount per student. Like £10.

The cleaning funding and the PPE funding can only be claimed after an outbreak.

@peasaregood

yep, just read it again and still says the majority cleaning after others include teachers. Quite an easy little sentence really

I'm sorry to say this, but "the majority cleaning includes teachers" is really NOT the same thing as "the majority of teachers are cleaning."

I appreciate the information Piggy as I don’t know the detail

I agree is very low per student but probably ok to fund school cleaning, shame it can’t be used for that

I imagine many heads will sue it to insist teachers do after school stuff - what would this likely be?

I think peas you also missed the point about the hazardous materials training, the requirement to store hazardous chemicals and the idea that teachers/office staff , GPs are not trained in proper cleaning.

In fact, very few schools have those kind of cleaning products, which is another concern.

Hotels have also upped their cleaning and employed more staff.

Last time peas then I’m giving up.

“The majority of people who are doing this are teachers” does NOT mean the same as “the majority of teachers are doing this”.

Angelina beat me to it!

Last time peas then I’m giving up
wish you would

@palacegirl77
If they are parents and happy to volunteer why not?

As a parent I will do whatever I can to support schools help get back to their purpose. Education.

Doesn't just have to be cleaning toilets.
THey could also be putting together all the things to ensure if this happens again, schools are prepared. And everything is stored internally. so it's ready if needed. No last minute dash making home learning packs etc.

Rather than focusing on more fundraisers for more playground equipment it would also open up eyes to other areas seriously lacking because of funding, and most importantly time.

Essentially teachers are office managers but with no-one give tasks to unless they are lucky enough to have a TA. Their "clients" are the pupils and the boss appears to be anyone even the clueless like bojo.

I am actually also desperately concerned about my fellow colleagues cleaning toilets at break , losing their own break, not being able to see to their period, their own toileting needs and so on and having all their rights eroded.

Anyone decent would be concerned about a largely female workforce being walked all over. So many times on MN , I have read that CV is a feminist issue. Not when it comes to teachers overwork and working conditions and -frankly- exploitation. And ANY parent would not want their child's teacher doing this instead of what they could be doing to get ready for a lesson.

Thinking more about it I want money to go to what helps teachers stay and teach, rather than ineffectual plasters for catch up.

Thanks Marsha.

[quote canigooutyet]@palacegirl77
If they are parents and happy to volunteer why not?

As a parent I will do whatever I can to support schools help get back to their purpose. Education.

Doesn't just have to be cleaning toilets.
THey could also be putting together all the things to ensure if this happens again, schools are prepared. And everything is stored internally. so it's ready if needed. No last minute dash making home learning packs etc.

Rather than focusing on more fundraisers for more playground equipment it would also open up eyes to other areas seriously lacking because of funding, and most importantly time.

Essentially teachers are office managers but with no-one give tasks to unless they are lucky enough to have a TA. Their "clients" are the pupils and the boss appears to be anyone even the clueless like bojo.[/quote]
Id be careful suggesting any form of support for the school on mumsnet. I offered some helpful suggestions and was told to shove my positivity. Ive learnt not to bother offering any support now which is sad as personally I too would have happily volunteered time and supplies to help out.

I am a TA. I have a regular toilet cleaning slot twice a day plus extra when any child wees on the floor (KS1 so this happens often) or smears poo in the wall (about once a week).

We don't really have enough toilets, so in a normal time they would be disgusting by lunch time. Now, in this time of extra cleaning due to COVID, they are being cleaned so often they are actually nice for the children to use.

Personally I wish they would spend extra funding on things like getting rid of damp (to improve everyone's respiratory health) or fixing windows so they actually open and we might be able to have some ventilation in the classroom - much needed during this time of COVID.

Schools can't have any volunteers in at the moment - it introduces another potential COVID infection source.

Schools can't have any volunteers in at the moment - it introduces another potential COVID infection source.

Well, I'd argue that the potential infection risk from filthy toilets is possibly greater than introducing yet another few adults into the building.
Schools are heaving with people traipsing in and out, so don't be fooled that bubbles aren't being burst left, right and centre.

Ours isn't. Only people in are the children, teachers, TAs, admin, cook, caretaker and cleaners.

Admin, cleaners and caretaker have no contact with it's anyone. The cook wheels the meals to the classroom door where the teachers and TAs collect them and give to the children who eat at the desk.

No one else is allowed in. Parents drop their children off at the gates and ring the office rather if they need to talk to anyone. Deliveries are to the gate.

Realistically I can't imagine teachers will be cleaning toilets.

Toilets will have to be open during break times for use. So the options for a school would be to employ cleaning staff if budgets allow. Or stick to normal cleaning schedule.

I'd be much more concerned about children not washing their hands after using the toilet than them using a sparkling clean bog. And let's face it even a lot of adults don't do that!!

Stop feeding them, people, it only encourages them.

Back under the bridge with them.

@SunflowerProsecco
Are the cleaners onsite all day?

I know a few that still have a caretaker who lives on site and rather than doing usual whatever they do, they are taking on cleaning responsibilities. Others have asked mdm and cleaning staff to work different hours if possible, and they are given cleaning stuff etc to do.

But then how many schools still have these staff? Many had to cut staff even before this because of the budget cut, hence less ta's etc in schools.

I do hope in a way this is true because it's funny but highlights the point. School tech and admin support have also dragged into this. Rather than sitting there all day doing nothing. (not my words) they can pitch in. I'm sure tech support won't mind leaving their work to go and unclog the toilet because of that daft toilet roll ball thing some kids love to do.

Normally I think they get left until the end of the day unless noticed, and then it gets locked. Assuming it wasn't locked to begin with. Unless cleaners are onsite of course. I've had some very strict bosses and cannot imagine any slt coming into a class, ask for you to do that and keep a straight face.

Only thing I miss, not sitting with colleagues ripping the piss out shit like this. Even the most serious. slt who were follow everything by the book, wouldn't be able to resist. Of course in front of pupils/parents we acted professionally!