No 10 wants people to lose weight before the second wave

[Redolent]

What could possibly go wrong with encouraging people to go on a quick crash diet??

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As well as longer-term proposals to reduce the incidence of obesity, government officials are having urgent discussions about how to persuade people to lose weight in the next few months, before an anticipated resurgence in coronavirus cases in the autumn.

In England, 64% of adults are classed as overweight or obese and 29% as obese as measured by BMI, among the highest levels in Europe.

One official involved in the emergency planning said the government was alarmed at the possible death toll from a second wave. A programme is expected imminently, possibly within 10 days, based on encouraging people to reduce their calorific intake and lose weight rapidly.

@Splodgetastic "Why should I lose 20% of my body weight?" - Well, don't. With all due respect, nobody cares if you do. If there's an incentive it will focus on numbers, not individuals, and if your doctor called you and asked you to participate in the incentive, you should just say no. It's not like it's HIV, you're not spreading it solely by virtue of being overweight. Do whatever you want. It's just that most people don't give a shit about if Boris loses weight first before doing it themselves.

@BlueBrian

Boris must be over 16 stone, how do you get that overweight? Must be a right piggy eater, I'm taller than him, if I got to 16 stone I'd be horrified

rather unkind, particularly as some on this thread have stated how over weight they are

@Splodgetastic

I see the Boris acolytes are out in force on this thread. I’m not having a repulsive, middle-aged slug telling me how to run my life.

He's not.

If you need to lose weight and you don't want to, that's entirely your own choice.

Boris btw, has made no secret of the fact he thinks his excessive weight played a part in his admittance to intensive care, or that he's on a weight loss diet now.

@WhatCFeryIsThis, if my doctor called me and suggested I participate in a government-sponsored weight-loss programme, I would tell them to go and do a running jump.

@YangShanPo

Is this the same government that is giving everyone in the country a £10 restaurant voucher?

No one's getting a voucher, that's not what the scheme is and there's certainly no part of it that says you have to eat anything unhealthy if you do go out.

Not getting at you specifically but why do so many people equate eating outside of the home with eating unhealthy? Of course fast food places exist but so do thousands of places serving perfectly normal food.

Maybe Skeletor wants us all to look like him.

[quote Splodgetastic]@dairyfairies, I'm afraid Boris has to lead by example with this one. I'm not going on a diet unless he does, that's for sure.[/quote]
What an odd way to keep yourself fit and healthy

Your post implies you know you need to lose some weight but you aren't going to do it until someone you don't like does it first, that's just bonkers.

@PleasantVille, well it was suggested that everyone should be losing 20% of their body weight. That’s just bonkers! 20% is a LOT of weight to lose. I don’t see where the evidence is that it is going to do anyone any good.

As they need to raise taxes, I wouldn’t be surprised if they decide to implement a metabo law next (Japanese payroll tax on overweight employees).

@dairyfairies I'm afraid Boris has to lead by example with this one. I'm not going on a diet unless he does, that's for sure.

splod, we all know the dangers that come with obesity and why losing excess weight has loads of benefits. I am an adult. I can process this information and come to my own conclusion of what is good for me. I certainly do not need Boris to lose weight first. I really don't get the link to Boris' weight. Could you elaborate why you couldn't lose weight despite all the evidence available unless Boris does? I find that baffling.

OH MY GOD!!!

Well this thread has certainly drawn out all the fat shamers hasn’t it?!

Here’s an idea for starters - how about you replace in all those posts berating the overweight for being weak and not taking personal responsibility for being overweight with “addiction” or

In terms of the current situation for people who are classed as obese to be a healthy weight by the autumn when a 2nd wave is likely to start hitting WOULD mean crash dieting - which is just as unhealthy and unsafe as being overweight!

In general terms:

1 fat shaming/berating people for being overweight DOES NOT WORK! Many many studies and loads of anecdotal knowledge supports this.

2 it’s NOT just personal responsibility there are many reasons for becoming and staying overweight and personal choice is only a part of it - AGAIN loads of evidence to support this. Environment, food composition, education, class, genetics, wealth, medication, health... ALL are factors in obesity.

3 NOT everyone can “eat less move more” various health conditions and disability can make these very difficult or even impossible.

4 and that’s all BEFORE you even get into the psychological side of things. Tons of sympathy for people who’s eating disorders make them underweight (as there should be of course) but still VERY little recognition, acceptance or understanding of compulsive over-eating.

And that’s all not even to MENTION the fact that this is this govt AGAIN rather than take responsibility for how much THEY have FUCKED UP in their handling of this crisis! It’s been a monumental fucking disaster which they take NO RESPONSIBILITY for!!!

The trouble is if you have a disorder that can cause weight retention or gain - thyroid issues, PCOS, mental health - there’s very, very little help out there exactly! And that’s if you can even get a dx in the first place!!

*diets do work. People just don't stick to them.

I say this as someone who is currently overweight* wow! Talk about cognitive dissonance! If diets work and you’re overweight “currently” how come they haven’t worked for you?

My history is somewhat unusual for an overweight person. I was absolutely skinny until I had dd. To the point I struggled not to be UNDERweight and had many “tellings off” from hcps on my LOW weight (AGAIN no actual advice or help though!!) and I was not an under eater! All my family are the same on one side...until we have babies! Then our metabolism seems to go into reverse! All of the relatives I am describing were found...eventually...to have malfunctioning thyroids! And yet I CANNOT get a gp to take my concerns on this seriously! Twice I’ve managed to persuade locums to take bloods BUT they’ve only tested for the “basic” common thyroid issues when the conditions my relatives have are less common and need specific testing to dx.

In addition I have asthma and have been on steroids for years, plus I’m on other medication that slows metabolism and increases appetite (although actually I only eat one meal and one small snack a day due to other health issues), plus I have a dx physical disability...

In the past I Swam, did aerobics, cycled, ran (inc half marathons etc), danced, did weights... all of which I can no longer do.

AND YET every fucking dr I see my weight is the thing they latch on to and berate me for - while offering ZERO useful help or advice on how to shift it!

I’ve managed to (with a lot of work and willpower and support from a good therapist I had at that time) lose 2.5 stone and kept it off, but I’m still overweight.

I can’t exercise more than I currently do - which is very little, basically just my physio stretches, which both hurt and knacker me! And if I ate any less I’d honestly risk malnutrition (which I’m not convinced I’m having problems with anyway)

There is ONE dietitian here for the WHOLE COUNTY and frankly having met with her once myself I seriously doubt her qualifications!!

Perhaps now is the time to crash diet if you’re obese? Nothing has motivated me more to lose weight & get fit than the thought of needing to be on a ventilator.

Most of the people who died were obese though, it’s a huge risk factor. I’d LOVE to see data regarding whether it’s PURELY the obesity that put them at risk, or whether conditions THAT POSSIBLY MADE THEM OBESE are the risk factor.

Even with diabetes there’s starting to be research coming through/being done to investigate whether it’s actually caused BY obesity or whether being undx for some time as is often the case and the diabetes is the cause OF the obesity.

However, with 2/3 of the adult population in the overweight range, for the overwhelming majority, this is self-made without an illness to blame. you can’t POSSIBLY know this, especially with the difficulties in getting a dx - for pretty much fucking anything if you’re a woman, even more so if you’re not a white woman! - we cannot know if those people are overweight without there being an underlying cause for their gain/inability to lose.

I honestly believe a Uk wise thorough screening for thyroid issues would be VERY revealing! Just for starters!

Rationing on the way in time for winter and Brexit perhaps? I must admit I had that thought at back of my mind too! That this is at least partly a sneaky way of reducing demand for at least food and drink if not other products!

and are perhaps an easier one to try and do something about in the short term than some of the others. it’s one they can easily blame on the public and not take responsibility for.

I note they’ve done SOD ALL about the vitamin D aspect! Which they COULD do something about!

If they did then I would like to think that people then with conditions could get more help before bigger problems. 😂😂😂😂 yea ok! Have you ANY IDEA the mess primary care is now?!

they put us into impossible situations where we are set up to fail that’s possibly the point! So WHEN A 2nd wave hits probably just as Brexit bites!) they can blame us rather than taking responsibility for THEIR shite governance

Yeah the proposed new trade deal with USA will really help, importing loads of crappy junk food into the UK will work wonders for the country's health, just look how slim the Americans are. yep! Personally I’d ban palm oil, artificial sweeteners (anything artificially created to provide ZERO nutritional value doesn’t belong in our bodies!), and any number of other shite USA food practices!

[quote Splodgetastic]@PleasantVille, well it was suggested that everyone should be losing 20% of their body weight. That’s just bonkers! 20% is a LOT of weight to lose. I don’t see where the evidence is that it is going to do anyone any good.[/quote]
Has that been suggested by the government in the last couple of days? I've not seen that reported, obviously I haven't read every word written about it but I haven't seen that in the main newspapers.

It's summer, people really don't need gyms to be fit or to lose weight. 1 very short sighted and short term view 2 summer?! It’s barely 16°c here (west coast of Scotland) very overcast and threatening yet more rain. People are NOT inclined to go outside and exercise in such gloomy weather!

run on your own for pity sake

@CrowdedHouseInQuarantine - are you/have you ever been overweight? Gone running as a lone overweight woman? The verbal abuse ALONE is prolific and vile!

As for eat less move more. We know, we aren’t fucking thick. could not agree with this more!!!!

STOP TREATING OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE AND DESCRIBING THEM AS IF THEY ARE STUPID!!

It’s like telling an alcoholic to “just stop drinking” this brings to mind for me one of Oprah’s episodes on her struggle with food actually - the difference with OTHER addictions (she considers herself a “food addict” and I am inclined to feel similarly myself) is that at some level you CAN not drink alcohol/not smoke/not take drugs/not gamble BUT you CANNOT ever just NOT EAT at all! We need food to live so if that’s your “addiction” how the fuck do you manage “only being a little addicted”??

“A word of warning as well when I was young and slim I would never have imagined I’d end up like this. It’s easy to be smug up there on a high horse but you can easily fall off.” Absolutely! Thankfully I never was smug as I struggled keeping weight UP and so somehow “got” that it must be just as if not harder to lose weight/keep it down, but yes I’m guessing a fair few of the smug ones on this thread are young/healthy enough AT THE MOMENT to not understand or “get” how much harder it is to stay a healthy weight when you’re NOT young, fit and healthy any more.

I did take my physical ability prior to my disability for granted in hindsight but that was simply as I lacked the experience of BEING disabled.

Are there huge swathes of obese over 85 year olds in care homes? Because I’ve actually been in quite a few and never noticed such a pattern. excellent point! I too used to work in elderly care and many were if ANYTHING underweight - would LOVE to see the stats on that demographic!

Nutrition education is really poor in the UK totally agree!

We need a huge shake up of PE provision in schools’ugh don’t even get me started!! We seriously need to do away with “traditional” PE lessons of activities that many kids simply aren’t interested in or suited to! Stop it being so bloody competitive and focus on the health aspects/feeling good. Purge the bullying PE teachers too!

For those looking to assistance with losing weight from the government- not sure what you are expecting

How about - just for starters:

GP’s and other primary care hcps to be actually properly trained in diet and nutrition - because certainly my experience as both a patient AND a nurse is that there’s fuck all training on this! As a trainee nurse iirc we had 2 DAYS of study in uni on this and MAYBE on our community nursing rotation we’d have contact with a dietitian - although this was not guaranteed! NOTHING regarding nutrition or diet was specifically taught even in regard to conditions where this can be a major factor with the exception of diabetes (and you REALLY don’t want to get me started on the poor education and training on that!!)

for patients NOT to have to fight for years even DECADES to be screened/dx with conditions that can cause/exacerbate weight gain/Make losing weight difficult - I’ve been reporting what I believe to be a thyroid issue for almost 20 years, I’ve several friends with PCOS who took an average of 10 years to get a dx, 2 with cushings disease (1 took 3 years to get dx 1 took 5!), 2 with congestive heart failure took them each around 5 years to get a dx - and that’s just “off the top of my head” and doesn’t include the MANY who’ve had issues due to menopause and the changes caused by pregnancy. To those posters giving it not everyone who is overweight is ill I strongly believe the vast majority are overweight due to medical issues!

When you include ALL the possible “external” medical causes of obesity:

ALL the different physical medical conditions that can cause weight gain
ALL the medications that do
ALL the mental health issues that can cause it

Then YES I think it should be seen as an ILLNESS and NOT a PERSONAL FAILING

If for NO other reason than CLEARLY treating it as a personal failing as we have done for centuries IS NOT WORKING So trying a different approach could be more effective and SUCCESSFUL?

Boris is very overweight, though, but for the majority of people I don’t think losing 20% of body weight is healthy, but if there is evidence that it is I will do it if the government will also make sure I can access a GP for my ongoing condition which puts me at risk and which I have to pay a private doctor to manage.

Thousands of people suffering won't have an official diagnosis. totally agree with/believe this. There are likely millions of people overweight due to medical causes currently undx!

for more dietitians to be well trained and employed to assist patients

for the general environment to be made more conducive to healthy eating and exercise

1 I’m not even talking ‘free gyms’ but decent cycle paths and wide enough roads (the Dutch have an excellent road and cycle way system we could follow), well lit and well maintained footpaths and walking/running areas (certainly where I live the paths and roads are a fucking mess! Supposedly the fault of the council BUT councils have had their funding from central govt cut to the bone!!

2 fewer working hours so people have the time and ENERGY to exercise, shop properly and cook. Several pps have mentioned we’re the fattest country in Europe! I believe we’re also one of the hardest working in terms of hours worked AND we’re also in the top range for length of commute! Even though we’re a tiny fucking island! If our commuting and working hours were reduced, ie a healthier work/life balance we’d probably be healthier generally!

3 Supermarkets and other food retailers do also need to do their bit. 1000 different types of crisps but only 3 different kinds of apples? Something I noticed when I did my last grocery shop! Fresh “raw ingredients” being far more expensive than processed and convenience foods, more heavily promoted and more likely to be included on “special offers” too! The aforementioned palm oil, artificial sweeteners etc, the layout of supermarkets (which they spend a FORTUNE on specialist advice on to make us spend more).

4 Food deserts need to be addressed, not to mention the utter DISGRACE which is serious food poverty in an objectively wealthy country! Food banks mainly ask for and give out highly processed and convenience foods because they and their clients need things with long shelf lives as they lack suitable storage and/or cooking facilities for fresh or even frozen produce. It’s SHAMEFUL that there are 100,000’s of families in this country that have nothing but maybe a kettle to “cook” with, perhaps a microwave if they’re lucky! Here in Scotland one thing we’ve had until recently (again deteriorating due to cuts in funding from central and Scots govt) is free swimming for school aged children and pensioners. I’m told it made a huge difference in terms of health of the population and now that it’s going they’re starting to see the negative result of this. My dd has a disability which limits what exercise she can do and swimming was one thing she really enjoyed and could get a lot of exercise doing as no pressure on joints etc

5 I’m going to show my age with aspects of the next one but here goes:

The food environment at work is appalling in this country.

Yes people COULD take pack ups but a lot don’t have the time, energy or inclination to prep one each day PLUS many work places don’t provide safe, clean and even refrigerated storage for employees lunches (frankly I’d change health and safety law to make this mandatory) Also depending on what you do, if it’s a “mobile” job you may not have a “workplace” as such.

I’d implement a network of “work canteens”, possibly located in currently vacant shops? providing basic but tasty healthy food AT COST PRICE to working people - if the govt are serious (😂😂😂) about this then this would be an excellent idea. In order to access people would simply need to show work ID or perhaps have an app or “credit card” for paying?

Certainly they could require companies with large numbers of employees on a work site to provide a works canteen, very few have them now but I have very fond memories of working in factories, packaging plants etc which had subsidised canteens where it was possible to get a cheap, hot, Healthy and filling meal during work hours.

Slightly off topic as I’m discussing food environment here but I’d also require employers to provide exercise spaces too! Ideally gyms but at the very least an open space where employees can at least do some yoga, aerobics on the spot or light weights?

6 FAR more control on what TYPE of food establishments are able to open within a certain area/square mileage. I live in a deprived area and the number of fast food places is ASTONISHING! There’s limits on what gambling and drinking establishments can open and where but apparently anyone and everyone can open a fast food joint anywhere! Needs to be MUCH better regulated.

7 public transport wrt access to healthy food. Our public transport here is ABYSMAL! Only 2 of the buses stop at 1 of the supermarkets, the rest stop in the “main” town, mainly at one end of the high street where there’s a ton of fast food places! Also the 2 buses that stop there are the small kind with precious little space for shopping.

8 marketing and advertising - personally I’d ban advertising by ALL fast food places. I’d also ban advertising of all food and drink that’s high in fat or sugar UNLESS it’s an item with significant nutritional benefit like cheese. I’d certainly ban ALL marketing of fast food and convenience foods aimed at children, even surreptitiously (bright child friendly colours, cartoon characters etc)

I could go on all day!

9 as a single person living alone this is a PARTICULAR bugbear of mine - I think there’s a LOT needs done regarding the SIZE products are sold in! It’s virtually impossible to buy many perishable products in SMALL sizes WITHOUT paying a fucking premium! Yes I can buy a smaller loaf of bread or whatever - but it costs more than a “regular” sized loaf!! Consumers are effectively paying a surcharge for trying to “eat less”. Portion sizes when eating out anywhere also need to be addressed! Utterly ridiculous portions that can and go contain up to 3 DAYS worth of calories in one course! I have when I am out and about (currently housebound) TRIED on numerous occasions to order children’s portions and EVEN WHEN I have been willing to pay the adult price been refused! AGAIN if the govt is serious about this they’ll make such practices illegal! On the VERY odd occasion I’ll order a takeout to home (maybe once a month usually, haven’t bothered since lockdown for various reasons) I order from a place that does “children’s” portions (they’re still FAR too much for even a young teen!) and one of the items is an undressed salad, but it’s still more cals in one meal than is healthy.

I know we can do these things on our own but why not make it easier and more fun? because fat people need to be punished of course!

I certainly think food rationing or metabo law is going to be the next thing.

Can the government make it mandatory please then I might find it easier? Or take away my constant chocolate options.

I am a food abuser! It is my drug. I don't even drink. I lost a stone since Christmas but have found it hard to budge past this because my mental health suffers and then I binge. I am only just a bit overweight but I can fluctuate 7lb easy depending on my MH. I also exercise but again this can become obsessive during bouts with my MH.

All I have to say is it is bloody hard. A constant battle so please dont fat shame. Everyone trying to lose weight is a good thing, no doubt, we all have our own health at stake.

I've had a few mcDonalds and lost weight. The whole packet of chocolate biscuits, happened on a gain a pound week. But generally it's about moderation and lots of anything is not ideal. So don't circle round and keep going through the drive thru and don't eat all the biscuits like me. It is a rewarding yourself thing. Long walk = biscuit to me so I'm trying to rewire !

Blimey Graphista, I thought I could type fast but how the fuck did you manage to type all that just one minute apart?

I'm actually genuinely impressed