No 10 wants people to lose weight before the second wave

[Redolent]

What could possibly go wrong with encouraging people to go on a quick crash diet??

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As well as longer-term proposals to reduce the incidence of obesity, government officials are having urgent discussions about how to persuade people to lose weight in the next few months, before an anticipated resurgence in coronavirus cases in the autumn.

In England, 64% of adults are classed as overweight or obese and 29% as obese as measured by BMI, among the highest levels in Europe.

One official involved in the emergency planning said the government was alarmed at the possible death toll from a second wave. A programme is expected imminently, possibly within 10 days, based on encouraging people to reduce their calorific intake and lose weight rapidly.

I'm no fan of the government but I can't see the issue with encouraging people to lose weight because of the risk of a poorer outcome if they contract Covid.

Sorry! wrong thread

@cosycatsocks oh that's interesting. So, seed oils are ok if they're produced in the UK? I'm so confused now at this point. I thought the issue with seed oil was that seeds don't naturally lend themselves to that process of extracting oil so it's a process with chemicals and bleaching and so on. After years of using rapeseed oil and sunflower oil, I HOPE they are healthy but at the moment, I'd still be too scared to use any vegetable oil besides olive.

There was an otiose article in the Sunday Times today by India Knight trying to compare being fat with anorexia. (That woman will try to have it all ways, having previously written a diet book).

The reality is that obesity has a number of causes but, primarily, rubbish food is the new cigarettes, allowed to be promoted and sold shamelessly by food companies and retail outlets. In addition it is just far too easy to avoid exercise altogether.

The ‘eat less, move more’ message is easy if you have a reasonable degree of wealth and education. However, if you don’t, the McDonald’s ‘treat’ is affordable and the BOGOF offers on crisps and chocolates must be very tempting.

They need to treat foods with high sugar and fats the way they treat cigarettes, quadruple the cost, have plain packaging and don’t promote them. I also think a large grant towards gym membership for all should be available, contingent upon it being used with a certain frequency.

No one should be shamed for being fat, but not should the issue be ducked. In the same way as GPS bring up smoking at every visit, the same should be true of weight.

To me tobacco and fat/sugar addiction are v similar. We tackled one and know how to do it. No, they are not identical as you cannot quit food, but you can quit ‘toxic’ foods if that is what works best (crisps, biscuits, chocolate etc).

There was an otiose article in the Sunday Times today by India Knight trying to compare being fat with anorexia

For some people that's true. Binge eating disorder is an eating disorder, but not one that there's much support for as the potential effects are not seen for a while, whereas with anorexia etc there needs to be faster intervention and support because the chance of becoming extremely poorly can be months away rather than decades. Both often have underlying emotional issues or can be related to trauma as well as MH. Of course that isn't the case for everyone who is overweight, many are addicted to junk or find it a lot more convinient. But it's important not to discount BED, which is already seen as just being that people are greedy, much like the completely wrong assumption some have that anorexia is purely about the sufferer wanting to look skinny.

Bee,

I think that there are clearly mental elements to obesity but that does not explain how clearly correlated it is to wealth/‘class’ or price and availability of cheap calories.

There is also a massive link of some smokers to psychological issues but that does not change the fact that, societally, it can relatively easily be addressed.

Odd that overweight people are capable of pushing fully laden trolleys of oven chips and pizza around Farmfoods, but are incapable of walking around the local park for exercise, guess they've all got anxiety problems which stop them from going out in the fresh air.

@ketowinnie you can make your own if you get a press!

But the thing to check is that it is cold pressed places like Farrington oils make cold pressed rapeseed oil.

I wasn't saying that all oils in the UK are without chemicals etc, I don't think that is true. But they are certainly better than the USA. And if cold pressed they are nothing but good for you.

@larrygrylls I like your food packaging suggestion.

@BlueBrian

Odd that overweight people are capable of pushing fully laden trolleys of oven chips and pizza around Farmfoods, but are incapable of walking around the local park for exercise, guess they've all got anxiety problems which stop them from going out in the fresh air.

That’s mean. As are some of the things said to fat people oit walking in the park.

@BlueBrian

Odd that overweight people are capable of pushing fully laden trolleys of oven chips and pizza around Farmfoods, but are incapable of walking around the local park for exercise, guess they've all got anxiety problems which stop them from going out in the fresh air.

I think you jumped the shark with this one.

I think a lot of the work needs to start in childhood, and for that parents need to educate themselves. There is nothing wrong with a biscuit, bit of chocolate or jelly and ice cream in moderation. However (as a parent of under fives) I know personally of many parents who seem incapable of using the simple word 'no' when their children want to eat crap. Pain au choc or brioches or breakfast. Dunkers and children's 'biscuits' at lunchtime. Frubes etc for snacks. Mid afternoon? Have a Penguin or a twix, or a bag or crisps. Or open access to not great snacks that they can help themselves to whenever.

My children have bits of unhealthy food here and there as part of the overall balanced diet, I try my best to give (notwithstanding toddler/preschooler fussiness!). In fact my child is this moment eating two Jaffa cakes. But that's all the junky stuff she'll have today. She'll be asking for biscuits mid afternoon, and she'll get told no. She can have an apple, or some pepper and carrot sticks instead of she wants a snack mid afternoon. We have rubbish days here and there, but it's the minority of the time.

We also need to get out of the treat/reward food cycle (I as an adult still feel the effects of this). Sad? Treat yourself to a takeaway, or slab of chocolate or bottle of wine! Happy? Do the same! You deserve it. No, your body deserves to be fed with healthy, nutritious food and that should be the treat, daily.

I'm not judging, it's bloody hard to lose weight. I am currently losing weight, having had a hard few years, two babies and piled on 4st through emotional/boredom eating and the 'treat yourself, you've had a hard day' mentality. I've lost a stone and a half in five weeks and I will carry on. What's harder is chasing your mindset, permanently, and it will be much easier for future generations if we can embed the right relationships with food from the start rather than trying to reverse the damage that a poor relationship with food does to your mind and body.

I think a lot of the work needs to start in childhood, and for that parents need to educate themselves. There is nothing wrong with a biscuit, bit of chocolate or jelly and ice cream in moderation. However (as a parent of under fives) I know personally of many parents who seem incapable of using the simple word 'no' when their children want to eat crap. Pain au choc or brioches or breakfast. Dunkers and children's 'biscuits' at lunchtime. Frubes etc for snacks. Mid afternoon? Have a Penguin or a twix, or a bag or crisps. Or open access to not great snacks that they can help themselves to whenever.

My children have bits of unhealthy food here and there as part of the overall balanced diet, I try my best to give (notwithstanding toddler/preschooler fussiness!). In fact my child is this moment eating two Jaffa cakes. But that's all the junky stuff she'll have today. She'll be asking for biscuits mid afternoon, and she'll get told no. She can have an apple, or some pepper and carrot sticks instead of she wants a snack mid afternoon. We have rubbish days here and there, but it's the minority of the time.

We also need to get out of the treat/reward food cycle (I as an adult still feel the effects of this). Sad? Treat yourself to a takeaway, or slab of chocolate or bottle of wine! Happy? Do the same! You deserve it. No, your body deserves to be fed with healthy, nutritious food and that should be the treat, daily.

I'm not judging, it's bloody hard to lose weight. I am currently losing weight, having had a hard few years, two babies and piled on 4st through emotional/boredom eating and the 'treat yourself, you've had a hard day' mentality. I've lost a stone and a half in five weeks and I will carry on. What's harder is chasing your mindset, permanently, and it will be much easier for future generations if we can embed the right relationships with food from the start rather than trying to reverse the damage that a poor relationship with food does to your mind and body.

I cant see a nationwide drive to get people slimmer and healthier being anything than a positive to be honest. Obesity is the biggest risk factor and indicator for a poor outcome. It’s not about looking nice it’s a health issue. As a nurse people constantly roll their eyes if I ever have to bring up their weight and don’t care- perhaps this will finally be a wake up callz

I'm not sure why this is necessarily a push towards a 'crash' type of diet. Many people, (including me), have 1-2 stone to loose and that's possible by winter without crash dieting.

Any move in the right direction is a positive IMO.

I'm really interested in the science behind vegetable and seed oils mentioned on this thread. I've had a google but there is so much info that it's hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff. If anyone could suggest a helpful resource that would be really helpful.

For those looking to assistance with losing weight from the government- not sure what you are expecting but 12 week free membership to slimming world or weight watchers has been available through GPs for years
No it hasn't. My BMI was 37 and I was told I had to lose weight to have surgery. I asked GP for help but I didn't qualify as I pay for my prescriptions.
Ended up doing a ridiculous meal replacement diet. Lost the weight but 4 months later regained it and than some.
I find it really hard to lose weight. It is very much linked to how stressed I am.
Since than I lost even more but due to family issued it piled on again.
Back to eating healthily again.

@ktp100 how many calories are you consuming? A 1500 deficit is huge!

The whole 'Boris needs to lose weight too' is a non-issue. He doesn't rely on the NHS for his healthcare,
So he wasn't clogging up an NHS ITU bed than when he didn't even need a ventilation?

Odd that overweight people are capable of pushing fully laden trolleys of oven chips and pizza around Farmfoods, but are incapable of walking around the local park for exercise, guess they've all got anxiety problems which stop them from going out in the fresh air.
Wow @BlueBrian. I am a yo yo dieter. I still walked 10 miles or so with a BMI of 40.
Last year I was probably just obese and did a 50KM organised very hilly walk.
Never been to Farm Foods in my life. Regularly walk 300 to 400KM a month despite being obese.
Walking outside helps my mental health.

@Northernsoulgirl45

The whole 'Boris needs to lose weight too' is a non-issue. He doesn't rely on the NHS for his healthcare, So he wasn't clogging up an NHS ITU bed than when he didn't even need a ventilation?

Yes, he does rely on the NHS for care. Plus I'm not sure 'you can as unhealthy as you like if you have private healthcare' is very sensible given his sick pay is entirely paid by the taxpayer anyway and I think countries function better with PM in post!

@BlueBrian

Odd that overweight people are capable of pushing fully laden trolleys of oven chips and pizza around Farmfoods, but are incapable of walking around the local park for exercise, guess they've all got anxiety problems which stop them from going out in the fresh air.

In a genuine way, I think you are in need of help. This kind of cruel and derogatory comment is distasteful.

To be fair even though private hospitals were paid by the NHS to provide extra capacity, I'm sure if he was trying to make a point/prove he was a person of the people and loves the NHS he could have acquired care outside of the health service. He has also lost a fair bit of weight recently. I am not a fan and think he couldn't have made more of a mess of dealing with this if he tried, but people saying they aren't losing weight to spite Boris and use him as an example is odd. Anyway, the advice is good at anytime, anyone who is overweight would benefit health wise either in the long or short term from losing weight, BUT it's not that easy for many. There is no support for things like BED, those whose eating is intrinsically linked with emotional trauma, or due to poverty etc, therefore their message would have a lot more credibility if they were also providing support.

Wasn't trying to*

@EasternDailyStress

Maybe, just maybe, if the government had handled this situation properly, ie locking down earlier and keeping locked down, then we wouldn't find ourselves in this position.

So much blood on their hands. And more to come.

We would be in the same position. Countries that locked down early are still experiencing new clusters. The virus is still there. Scientists are asking why Japan is experiencing a relatively low CFR, and the possibility is that it's down to their low obesity rate and traditional diet. Guess what? Japanese people are expected to take responsibility for their own well being, especially their weight.

Part of the problem here is our culture of excess, and lack of personal responsibility. Excess drinking, excess eating, but we're less inclined than other nationalities (excluding the US) to include exercise in our daily routines.

We don't "need" the gym to exercise, but for many people it's the place they do go to exercise - be it to lift weights, attend a class, swim etc. Some people feel more motivated working out in a group, some people prefer weights to cardio. It's not practical / cost effective / possible for everyone to stock up with all the gym equipment you need to work out at home. So keeping them closed when everything else is opening up IS a problem.

We need more cycle lanes. May roads are simply not safe enough for cyclists. We're now in a situation (at least in my open green space) where we have runners, walkers, cyclists and dog walkers all sharing the same space, with the odd idiot doing wheelies / racing past you / grazing by people for fun.

As for eating out, yes, you can make a healthier choice, but even then, it's not as likely to be as "healthy" as you could make it at home - either because of portion size or because it's not actually as healthy as it may seem. Plus there's often added temptation - oh, I'll have a side of chips with my salad / an alcoholic drink etc.

Like everything in this pandemic, the messaging has been all wrong. Wahaaaay, we're opening pubs, go out and get pissed. But also, lose weight NOW. You can't go to the gym, but you must exercise...etc etc.

I said it's "part" of the problem because there are some people for whom losing weight is difficult, due to health conditions etc. And that is where the medical community can and probably should help out. We should also be mindful of people that are at the opposite end of the spectrum - underweight - and what the "lose weight now" message says to them. If I'd seen this at 16 it probably would have made my ED worse.