Independent SAGE - today's briefing

[vera99]

Just putting this out there - very interesting and most importantly independent.

Thanks. This looks interesting. What are the main points? I’m feeding the baby so can’t have sound on.

Only just started watching for data crunchers this looks brilliant.

www.independentsage.org/

The twitter feed for the summary and commentary.

twitter.com/IndependentSage

"Elimination is the quickest way to open up the economy. England is nine times too high for this at the moment."

"England has 9 new cases per million people on average. Indie Sage want to see zero cases like New Zealand."

replies

"I am basing my family’s safety on the advice of Ind. Sage, rather than a bunch of proven liars, now only thinking of the economy.
So at the moment no pub/restaurant/cinema/spa, sorry if that’s unpatriotic."

"This is the elephant in the room and a very very risky situation... too many people pretending the school environment is somehow different to test of society, some more thoughts in the thread below.."

Labour party activists are not independent...

I don't believe this "other" sage

Elimination is a very big ask at this stage. Has any country done this with numbers this high?

I’m fully on board with a lot of what Independent Sage say, but I too think that the horse has already bolted on elimination.

That’s really interesting. Scotland is going for elimination but even if we achieve it god knows how easy that will be to maintain if England are still miles off that.

If Scotland can do it, so can England. Presumably most of England started in a similar position to Scotland (ignoring London) at the start of lockdown, and lockdown brought us all relatively to the same level. So the difference is in how lockdown is being lifted and the consequences of that.

They aren't Independent and they aren't Sage, they're a small group of 12 dissatisfied scientists. It's ok to have a range of opinions, but their approach is solely trying to undermine any government activity including the scientific opinions from the much larger group of independent civil servants and scientists on Sage. It's sad that some people are conned by them.

@MRex

They aren't Independent and they aren't Sage, they're a small group of 12 dissatisfied scientists. It's ok to have a range of opinions, but their approach is solely trying to undermine any government activity including the scientific opinions from the much larger group of independent civil servants and scientists on Sage. It's sad that some people are conned by them.

You think the disaster that is Jenny Harries is independent? Please.

When someone speaks independently like Van Tam did about Cummings, you saw what happened to him. Jettisoned from public view.

SAGE is now shunned anyway in favour of the government’s new Joint Biosecurity Centre. Corrupt institutions with zero credibility.

@MRex

They aren't Independent and they aren't Sage, they're a small group of 12 dissatisfied scientists. It's ok to have a range of opinions, but their approach is solely trying to undermine any government activity including the scientific opinions from the much larger group of independent civil servants and scientists on Sage. It's sad that some people are conned by them.

This is not a fair reflection. They have been concerned from the start that SAGE didn't have sufficient public health input, and the presence of Dominic Cummings whether speaking or not at SAGE confirms that it is anything but independent.

@labyrinthloafer - they haven't been "concerned", it's sour grapes that they weren't asked to join Sage.

[quote MRex]@labyrinthloafer - they haven't been "concerned", it's sour grapes that they weren't asked to join Sage.[/quote]
I just think that's a cheap insult, so easy to throw around and there's no comeback.

You don't know any of them, so are basically talking through your hat.

Whatever their motivations (and working in a previous life with a number of Professors they are often an egotistical and joyless bunch) they are providing a well chaired (Sir David King was a previous Whitty/Valance) they have the capability and experience to look at the data and opine and try to change policy from outside the tent. It's maybe a fool's errand given this government but at least they try.

I'm quite willing to listen to a wide variety of sources but I don't believe elimination is a realistic proposition and to be honest it makes me doubt how realistic "Independent" SAGE really are.

They have also produced some fairly alarmist, headline grabbing modelling using fairly dodgy figures.

In any event, comparing Independent SAGE to the real SAGE is very difficult. SAGE report to the government who then make political decisions based on that advice together with other considerations. Independent SAGE are criticising the decisions of government from a purely scientific basis without any of the other factors. Plus, really you're comparing Independent SAGE to the government which isn't a fair comparison.

Chris Whitty has said from day 1 of this that if your only concern is to stop deaths from COVID you will behave differently than if your aim is to minimise harm from all causes.

I think this government is a shit show but I don't envy them the balancing act they are faced with.

Sir David King was a previous Whitty/Valance
Yes, he advised killing all the badgers instead of vaccination. Totally unnecessary. He's a dickhead.

When I look at the members of SAGE (actual SAGE), lots of them have public health backgrounds. I wonder who IndieSg would approve of instead other than themselves.

Whenever I remind myself it's Johnson / Cumming's running the show after I shake down my anger and disgust I remember that this country is full of good, decent people just not them. That's what gives me hope.

Johnson / Cummings running the show
I know🧐they might be educated but they're still a pair of slippery geezers👀

I wonder where van tam went. he disagreed with Boris , he's not been seen since

Ah the self-appointed 'independent' SAGE again.

What's stopping any group of scientists calling themselves this or that 'SAGE' group? Maybe we need a self-appointed 'alternative indepedent SAGE' group to play contrarian to 'independent SAGE' too?

@IcedPurple and call it the Mumsnet coronavirus threads....

Interesting, thanks for sharing Op