Independent SAGE - today's briefing

[vera99]

Just putting this out there - very interesting and most importantly independent.

Ok thanks

I think it’s too late for us to do what NZ has

They locked down very early in the curve and our numbers are too high

That is before you get to the economic reality of attempting it now

@MarshaBradyo

Ok thanks

I think it’s too late for us to do what NZ has

They locked down very early in the curve and our numbers are too high

That is before you get to the economic reality of attempting it now

Perhaps Scotland and the island of Ireland may manage it?

It was a political choice to not try harder in England. Sadly the economy will suffer more in England for failing to tackle the virus.

England is in a pickle!

@MarshaBradyo I have no idea I'm just a nobody with too much time on my hands. What I do know and is in my bones that Johnson and pals like Trump in the US, and Bolsanaro in Brazil - the 'populists' who peddle in nationalistic lies are the worse possible candidates to be in power at this critical time. The fact that Johnson isn't as bad as these other two isn't a compliment. Any group of intelligent reasonable folk who question this have got my support. It's going to get a whole lot worse and the lie machines will be working overtime to manage this shit-show and people's opinions.

Thank god we still have free speech and an open society. I mean Indy Sage are unequivocal that masks should be compulsory for indoor situations -it's not that difficult a message. If you lead people will follow -the problem is Johnson, pure and simple. The sooner he goes the sooner we can get together as a county and lick this thing.

So I won't be trying to find ways to diss Indy Sage - besides which nearly no-one is listening/caring about them anyway. More grist to their mill - Sir David King is 80 btw he's looking good for his age.

@vera99 I totally agree, UK is so unlucky to have this PM at this time, we need serious, thoughtful and caring keadership

Your last line made me laugh Vera I googled to see how he was looking

I’m losing the will a bit generally with what’s going on, but agree free speech is important and Johnson not the best fit. Although I do like Sunak.

Scotland has a tiny population of 5 million compared to England's 66 million. England could aim for maybe elimination in one or two cities that hardly anyone goes to, to be on a comparable playing field. It's hardly an exciting aim, is it, to eliminate it from some rural depopulated areas with one or two scattered urban areas. If England eradicated it from Norfolk, Lincolnshire and Cornwall it would hardly be cause for great excitement.

@TheLegendOfZelda The relative size is an excuse imo, England could have divided itself into regions and approached it that way. You have to scale up the response but ultimately you're just jumping on outbreaks and breaking the chains. Japan has a bigger population than UK, and big cities.

England's situation was a political choice imo.

I would hazard a guess that SAGE are the great and the good and are doing their best to provide sound advice at this difficult time! Most will be acutely aware of the limits of their power and influence and will do their best to manage that and would see resignation as abandoning ship at this time so they stay the course.

What most of them think of Cumming's like the rest of us isn't that difficult to imagine.

It would have been better to give this advice right at the beginning of the pandemic. It’s too late now. We chose a different path and we have had no control over this virus. We had no idea how many thousands and thousands of cases were flying around in Feb/March as we only tested people In hospital with symptoms. We have unfortunately gone down a certain path..

Of course we would love elimination to be on the table. But realistically?

Yes we are where we are could we have some firm, economically literate advice and leadership, please. Staring with compulsory facemasks indoors. PLEASE.

Vera and lo...

Face coverings to be made compulsory in England's shops and supermarkets
The order comes into force on July 24 and those who fail to comply could face fines of up to £100

Oh yes, the only question is will he do that before or after he climbs down everyone’s chimneys and steals all the children’s lollipops

Good 'Indy' Sage is bearing early fruit.

Independent SAGE
@IndependentSage
·
Jul 10
Whether by touch or airborne, the virus is till more likely to spread indoors. Facemasks must be used.

Good 'Indy' Sage is bearing early fruit.

Hahaha. Come on now, masks have been under discussion since March. The change is because the WHO updated advice in late June, as well as the further studies on indoor transmission.

I suspect they are helping push things along a bit, by informing journalists and MPs of lots of the back issues and the wider scientific debate.

Leaders like Johnson like everyone to know very little so they can get away with not have to explain their position much. The presence of challenge is very very important at a time like this.

For those wanting an insight into Sir David King's thinking and why he agreed to chair this group this thread makes for a good read.

Trigger alert for Tories you won't like the conduit for the message.

Guido Fawkes is over there ----->

twitter.com/RadTransparent/status/1279745678130978817

Why oh why can't we edit posts for clean up. That thread above in threadreader.

Mumsnet software is the equivalent of world-beating NHS track and trace. But don't worry Cumming's chums will be along with with an app shortly whilst simultaneously working on Farage's Garage (Brexit lorry park) in Kent. Must get the government priorities right.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1279745678130978817.html

The obsession with Cummings is something you should talk to your husband about. But if you want to fund Carole Codswallops next libel case or fridge freezer that’s really a personal choice. You support independent sage as they are an activist group who are anti Tory which conforms with your own politics, not because they are a force for good.

the object is to demonstrate how trust can be developed with the public
I guess he's personally got the trust of some people who don't trust the government, but it's come at a cost of undermining the scientists giving their objective options through Sage and undermining official government advice. Sociologically, what tends to happen when advice is undermined is that people become skeptical of ANY advice, not that they switch allegiance, and not that this group even has a coherent set of alternative guidance to follow, only weekly soundbites. It's a real shame.

Well when you put the diumvurate of Johnson/Cumming's in charge (and the shitshow that was Corbyn for the record) whose only achievement was to peddle lies, half-truths and pickle grievances then here we are.

It's not rocket science to see that the countries with the worse death rates have the worst leaders. And Mrs Perriwinkle you make a lot of assumptions in your post and the name's Carole Cadwalladr and that 'libel' that you refer to isn't over by a long shot and the day I think Johnson is a force for good is the day I shoot myself. That said have a nice day - we are just the little people tapping away.

Oh and I reckon Theresa May who Johnson deposed would have done a far better job with a far superior ministerial team than this lot. She could hardly have done worse and Brexit and winter is coming.

Defending the crazy cat lady who retracts every other article proves any assumptions made correct. It’s not about the science or the greater good, it’s about bad tories and pushing a political agenda.

Oh and you mention Cummings again, fan of the chrome dome?

I think we need to agree to disagree or we will be here all day tapping away I have hoovering to do. The photomontage artist Cold War Steve sums up the government's approach quite nicely ....

Latest briefing now live

We have zero infection in our area. South Midlands and rural. It is possible if you have low population in largish area. But we know that, don’t need independent Sage to work that one out.
Looking to the future, radical global depopulation is the only way to protect the human race from future pandemics. But with that brings whole new discussion. As a species we have to accept that messing with natural selection will always create disharmony. I’m a scientist so please don’t slate me.

The change is because the WHO updated advice in late June

No, it was 5th June, its taken 6 weeks for the Govt to act on this change.
Many european countries made mask wearing mandatory in March and April and Asian countries even earlier, based on their exp of SARs.