Do you think the government will change the ‘WFH if you can’ advice before there is a vaccine?

[Ethelfleda]

I personally can’t see them doing so. If people are able to work from home then there is no economic need to tell people they can go back to an office.

I ask because I am starting to feel depressed WFH. I work in the same room as I sleep and it’s starting to have a massive negative effect on me. Our house isn’t really big enough to change this right now but I guess if I knew I would have to WFH for say, another 12 months then I would do something more permanent to rectify the situation.

Our employers have had certain people back in offices this week but have made it clear it is only a select few - I think probably people who don’t have proper screens at home or computer chairs etc
And have said they will follow the government advice for everyone else the whole way.

I’m trying to come to terms with the fact that my current work situation may not change for a very long time but it is hard to get my head around!

Anyone know what the advice is in other European countries??

Coming for*

@ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords

Surely it should be up to employers to decide, based on productivity, and if having staff working from home works as well for the business as having them in an office does. I don't understand why if it's ok for teachers/TAs/pupils to be in a relatively small room with 30+ other people, office workers can't return to work, when they are unlikely to sit right next to another person at the same desk.

The issue is it isn't ok for teachers/TAs/pupils.

Our work won't force us back too soon because the risk to the organisation of people having to self isolate etc is high. It'll be too disruptive.

It'll be disruptive in schools too, but the government don't mind that.

@ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords -

1. Because the country can't take too many risks at once; choosing between office work continuing at home where it works or close to zero education continuing at home - it's not difficult to choose the one that isn't working to go back.
2. Vulnerable children and working parents need the in-person aspect of school, whereas nobody needs to see Jeff from Finance in person.
3. Most schools are low rise and only one set of students from one county, many offices are high-rise with thousands of people travelling in from a wide area. Public transport has most likely been responsible for a lot of spread, people travel a lot further for work than for school, this increases overall risks.
4. Look up facts: there have been multiple super-spreader office events. No such super-spreader events for schools, anywhere in the world. Less children get infected, therefore less have it to spread. Whether it's a possible aircon risk from some types of system or just that it's adults it's hard to tell, but it's certainly higher risk.
5. Look up current infection rates on your area; they are very low. Opening schools is safe with those numbers. If you let everyone back into offices with cases rising you'll be much less safe in schools too, because the children will catch it from their parents!

My husband's company (engineering consultancy with about 80 staff over 5 offices) started back in the office this week. I was less than impressed about it and told him so. Apparently they can't adequately supervise junior engineers remotely, and their profitability is down. I am pretty incredulous about the whole thing.

I work in local govt and we have been told we will WFH for the foreseeable, although those people who actively want to be back in the office can put a request in to their managers and hopefully this can be accommodated.

@ethelredonagoodday

My husband's company (engineering consultancy with about 80 staff over 5 offices) started back in the office this week. I was less than impressed about it and told him so. Apparently they can't adequately supervise junior engineers remotely, and their profitability is down. I am pretty incredulous about the whole thing.

I work in local govt and we have been told we will WFH for the foreseeable, although those people who actively want to be back in the office can put a request in to their managers and hopefully this can be accommodated.

If their profitability is down, there will be redundancies. That will be the consequence.

Beebeet - I was merely pointing out how some jobs are impossible to offshore, it’s not about being “good for me.”

I pointed out in my previous post that a few people will still have to spend part of their time in the office and that it might be the norm to go in one day a week. I would be happy to go in one day a week for what I need to do - no need to feel sorry for me!

I know people classed as civil servants at other places and I was surprised that they all have laptops now, I presumed that to access certain systems they would have to be in the office. Nope!

There’s also the issue of commuting. I used to commute into the City by train and it was hellish at peak time. Perfect incubation grounds for the virus. Hence, working from home.

Round here, the buses only allow 11 people on at once for social distancing. It’s fine for now but wouldn’t work in normal commuting times.

How does this all work for new employees?

I suppose fewer will be needed, and it will be a miserable experience to be interviewed by zoom and then sit in your bedroom for hours on end.

Dn had just started at a law firm before lockdown. She had acquired a studio flat near the office. She is now sat in 10 square feet all day on a laptop with no opportunity to chat to colleagues or a boss, no “traditional” lunch break, no after work socialising. She is quite fed up as it is not what she envisaged from the world of work at all.

@IrmaFayLear

How does this all work for new employees?

I suppose fewer will be needed, and it will be a miserable experience to be interviewed by zoom and then sit in your bedroom for hours on end.

Dn had just started at a law firm before lockdown. She had acquired a studio flat near the office. She is now sat in 10 square feet all day on a laptop with no opportunity to chat to colleagues or a boss, no “traditional” lunch break, no after work socialising. She is quite fed up as it is not what she envisaged from the world of work at all.

We have quite a few new employees as the industry I am in has grown a lot during lockdown.

They have loads of opportunities to chat to colleagues either during team meetings or one to ones online or phone calls. We also have an informal once a week where all work talk is totally banned and we all talk about our kids/pets/diets/TV for an hour. All staff are encouraged to calendarise a proper lunch break every day.

We also do Quiz nights and Book Club.

It's not perfect but it's far better than the alternative (being crammed into commuter trains etc)

Agree @MRex .... for many companies there is very little impact from remote working, they can still deliver everything that is needed and expected, to the standards required. The same can't be said for education.... so it's not that one is safe and the other isn't, it's the benefit/risk balance that is very different.

@FluffyKittensinabasket but every job will be affected. Say other jobs which can be are outsourced, it makes competition for those jobs more fierce, and with increased demand for jobs wages are likely to fall, or even if not as an individual you face more competition to get a job. I don't think working at home is inherently bad, it's just that every sector will be affected even if not directly. It would need to be carefully considered and the fallout balanced, it isn't as simple as people liking working from home in their PJ's.

My company did a survey and found that 90% of people wanted to continue working from home. So, they are turning the office into a more informal space (taking out most desks, putting in sofas and stuff instead) where people can go if they choose to.

Personally I’ve got used to working from home now and rather like it (I hated it in the beginning, absolutely hated it).

Government will handover responsibility to the companies so they can be blamed if they don't use their common sense.

I agree with this (and those who have put similar). I don't think there will be an announcement as such, the WFH if possible will be quietly droped and it will be about "covid secure" work places. Many industries are back in their work place so there is little reason for offices to not follow suit.

It will be left to individual companies to decide. If there is an increase in WFH it will be because that is the way companies want to go, not because of what the government does or doesn't say.

Definitely I feel very sorry for new junior employees

whereas nobody needs to see Jeff from Finance in person

Poor Jeff. I always quite liked Jeff

I can foresee a lot of mental health problems arising from home working.

The MN demographic is largely (not wholly) married/partnered women with dcs and a home.

Out in the real world there are many, many people - like “Jeff from Finance” who will find their world has shrunk to a laptop and email contact. And it’s not just the middle-aged boring man, it could be the divorcee or the young recruit to Human Resources.

@IrmaFayLear

I can foresee a lot of mental health problems arising from home working.

The MN demographic is largely (not wholly) married/partnered women with dcs and a home.

Out in the real world there are many, many people - like “Jeff from Finance” who will find their world has shrunk to a laptop and email contact. And it’s not just the middle-aged boring man, it could be the divorcee or the young recruit to Human Resources.

This is where I am. Nobody needs to see me really, but I need to have contact with other humans that aren't 4'10 and have Minecraft as their sole topic of conversation.

"This is where I am. Nobody needs to see me really, but I need to have contact with other humans that aren't 4'10 and have Minecraft as their sole topic of conversation.".

So true. I am old and long retired but one of the things I loved about going out to work was that I was magi - just magi. Not magijunior's parent or MrMagi's other half. It was so important to me.

This is 2020 not 1980. ´Seeing’ Jeff from finance, the new trainee or recruit or new colleagues is totes possible. Via video (which can be secured like conference calls if needed) you can spend whole days communicating and ‘seeing’ each other. Chat function is maxi handy. TBH in big multinationals like inv banks this is how people communicate these days mostly in any case.
As for the ‘social need’ there are 100 million ways to get that - within and without work - without squeezing onto a commuter train or wasting an hour+ per day in the car going to the box office to sit in front of your computer all day.

We are heading back to the office in central London in September thank God.

I have been WFH two days a week for the past 8 years and I had a brilliant work/life balance before covid hit.

I work for a reasonably large business and 90% of our staff have said they want to do 3 days in the office, 2 days at home so I expect that's how it will work in the future. I've already noticed on the odd day I've been in London the last few weeks there are lots more city workers out and about.

Unfortunately, while I think WFH full time works for some industries, it doesn't work for ours and I'm sick to the back teeth of endless video conferences. From a social aspect, I miss being in the office with my colleagues. I am effectively living at work now rather than the other way round!

There has been a big sea change though and I think part time WFH will definitely be more the norm now, which will be a benefit when looking for new jobs in the future.

I'm already back 2 days a week, dp was in throughout. We do drive to work. I can't get as much done at home due to poor internet and a rubbish processor in my laptop!

@Rainbow12e

I'm in the same position. I'm desperately job hunting! I don't want to go home. Currently I'm staying up with exh (not ideal) one night a week

@fortmums

This is 2020 not 1980. ´Seeing’ Jeff from finance, the new trainee or recruit or new colleagues is totes possible. Via video (which can be secured like conference calls if needed) you can spend whole days communicating and ‘seeing’ each other. Chat function is maxi handy. TBH in big multinationals like inv banks this is how people communicate these days mostly in any case. As for the ‘social need’ there are 100 million ways to get that - within and without work - without squeezing onto a commuter train or wasting an hour+ per day in the car going to the box office to sit in front of your computer all day.

After an hour or two of Teams I am wiped out because I find it hard to read people without body language. I am not unique in this. Spending hours and hours on video calls is not a healthy substitute for in person communication.

Yes, zoom gives me a headache. In normal situations you don’t stare at people all the time, and there are little side conversations or two people talking at once and exchanging glances, kicking under the table etc.

It’s exhausting having a fixed pleasant expression on your face, and one person talking at a time (often for ages) is exhausting. You can’t exchange txts/WhatsApps with other employees if you don’t know them.