Do you think the government will change the ‘WFH if you can’ advice before there is a vaccine?

[Ethelfleda]

I personally can’t see them doing so. If people are able to work from home then there is no economic need to tell people they can go back to an office.

I ask because I am starting to feel depressed WFH. I work in the same room as I sleep and it’s starting to have a massive negative effect on me. Our house isn’t really big enough to change this right now but I guess if I knew I would have to WFH for say, another 12 months then I would do something more permanent to rectify the situation.

Our employers have had certain people back in offices this week but have made it clear it is only a select few - I think probably people who don’t have proper screens at home or computer chairs etc
And have said they will follow the government advice for everyone else the whole way.

I’m trying to come to terms with the fact that my current work situation may not change for a very long time but it is hard to get my head around!

Anyone know what the advice is in other European countries??

@Beebeet

Overall, this a really good thing for society - less commuting, pollution, more time with family and friends etc.

More insular society, bigger divide between those who can WFH and those who have to be physically at work, removal of geographical barriers meaning more outsourcing, a load of job losses, those with money and designated spaces to work in much better positions than those working from their room, reduced salaries. Sounds good, sign me up.

I agree. WFH has its upsides but - surprise surprise - it also has its downsides. You mention some of them - I think an atomised society is defintely one of them - but also the fact that many jobs (cleaners, taxi drivers, the aforementioned sandwich shops etc) depend on office staff. Plus, while some are loving it, some of us hate working from home and find it lonely and depressing.

Not to mention that, if a physical presence at work is no longer required, why bother paying high British wages when competent English speaking staff can be found for a fraction of the cost in India or the Phillippines?

I'm surprised to still be at home. Back in March I daren't dream to still be WFH in July, yet here I am. Mostly it suits me perfectly, but then again I have the room and at the end of the day I can shut the laptop and not think about it again. I get up later, sat at home finished work sooner and saving a load of money not having to commute to work.

However, over the last couple of weeks or so I have found the odd advantage to going to work. Firstly if I had a shit day then the 30 min drive home spending time on my own and thinking about driving rather than work gave me chance to get over the rubbish day, walking from the dining room to the living room doesn't quite have the same effect.

Also I am missing the odd bit of office banter. I had only been working at my job a little over 3 months when lockdown happened and even though I got on with everyone, I feel like I don't yet know them well enough to chat about stuff so the only interaction is very formal and professional (not that it isn't in the office, but I dont feel like I can do the small talk stuff)

Our office is letting people go to work if they want, but you need to speak to your manager first. They expect you to go in if there are ongoing internet issues, but that's not happened to anyone yet.

Id like to still be working from home when the DCs go back to school just so I can have some time working from home without having to listen to their arguments or without DD2 coming to me every so often just to hug (she loves me apparently)

@AldiAisleofCrap

You do realise it's not possible for some people to change their house space around? *@PinkSparklyPussyCat* I think you are the short sighted one. I simply meant , clear the dining room table or buy a cheap fold up desk and stick it in the lounge. Not build an extension!

No, I'm not short sighted at all and I know you didn't mean build an extension! In my case why should I have to use my dining room table (I'm talking long term BTW, not temporary as it's supposed to be now)? I want to eat off it, not work from it! I have no space for a fold away desk and nowhere else to put my work equipment when it was folded away.

I understand how the OP feels, it's as though you can't get away from work. If I had a spare room to turn into an office and close the door on the crap I might feel differently but I don't and I'm not likely to.

I think one of the fundamental things I'm uncomfortable with is the potential removal of choice. My company has had flexible working and allowed WFH for years, and of course there are benefits to society as well as individuals. For some people, it's absolutely the right thing, but it's not for everyone, for lots of reasons. The flexible suddenly becomes very inflexible if one way of working is forced on everyone.

Also think it creates a more divided society.

*The flexible suddenly becomes very inflexible if one way of working is forced on everyone.

Also think it creates a more divided society.*

This. I hate the idea of wfh. I'm not currently employed (finishing another degree with 2 young children) but I wouldn't consider a job which is done purely from home. Getting out of the house is a important part of work for me. Not sure my marriage will survive if dh ends up permanently wfh either. I hate having to ban the kids from areas of the house because he's on work calls etc as I don't think it's fair. There needs to be separation for us at least.

@AldiAisleofCrap

You do realise it's not possible for some people to change their house space around? *@PinkSparklyPussyCat* I think you are the short sighted one. I simply meant , clear the dining room table or buy a cheap fold up desk and stick it in the lounge. Not build an extension!

I work off three screens. It needs a massive desk and can't be put away at the end of the day as I have nowhere to put it. I can't do my hobby because it's taking the space I use for that. There is no other space in the house. I'm living at work at the moment and it's grim.

@Purpleartichoke

Oh and we did get some good advice on balance from my employer. They asked that we put away our work at the end of the day. Obviously if you have a home office that is easy, you just close the door. But if you don’t, they recommend putting your work computer And any papers into a bag so that you don’t see it and aren’t tempted to touch it.

In theory, great advice, and I am doing this on a Friday evening for the weekend, but it's too much faff to move the heavy monitor, large pile of heavy books which is acting as a laptop stand, laptop, keyboard and mouse all onto the floor at the end of very day, only to have to put them all back again and make sure they are in the right position for working ergonomically before work the next morning. The logistics of where my dining table is, also means that I have to move it (it does have wheels) to make space behind it to put all the equipment on the floor.

OP, as some others have suggested, if I were you I would talk to your manager and ask if you can be one of the people who are allowed to go into the office. Let them know the impact wfh is having on your mental health. My workplace has risk assessed our offices in recent weeks and made them safe for a small number of people at one time to go and work there. Anyone who feels they need to be in the office can book a desk for a day or more. The need might result from lack of space or a proper desk at home, or having young children around at home, or from mental health being adversely affected by wfh, or anything else that means they are struggling to work from home. I am due to go into the office a some point next week and I absolutely cannot wait (commute is a walk so won't be risking catching or spreading COVID on public transport).

Husbands office is an expected to go back
Spring 2022.

TWENTY TWENTY TWO.

I’ve been working from the kitchen table, and have a really sore back! Our union has said we can ask for equipment to be brought to us, so if this goes on much longer I might do that.

I miss my colleagues, and I miss my walk to and from work. Equally there is a load of stuff about pre-CV-life that I miss more. Getting up later, being able to stick on a wash or whatever is great, but I am also concerned about high energy bills in autumn and winter.

I hate the uncertainty of it most of all. If work said, we plan for people to be back in from XYZ, I think it would be easier for me.

I think there will need to be some legislation around working from home in the same way they have set up the right to ask for flexible working in the employment act.

To my mind it would mean you have the right to request to WFH if the role allows it but equally an employer must provide a place of work for those who want to work that way.

For many people getting out of the house is an essential part of their wellbeing for lots of reasons.

I think there would have to be some sort of geographical quota introduced or what’s to stop employers recruiting people from all over the world?

Suddenly the pool of talent is global it puts a lot of small town folk on the back foot really.

what’s to stop employers recruiting people from all over the world
What a weird thing to say. Nothing. Right now. There is nothing to stop employers from recruiting wherever and whomever they choose (apart from sanctions, but'obviously that's rare). Sometimes there could be short-sightedness where people could be employed who live elsewhere, other times the convenience of location is important even if meetings are rare, mostly the convenience of location over-rides everything else.

Let’s be realistic, for most offices I would say 100% of the employees work within a 2 hr commute of the place.

So, that’s what stops employers recruiting from anywhere in the world, currently.

Have you heard the term "international company" before? How about "branches"?

My job and all the others in my organisation can only be done by British nationals with various levels of security clearance. Simply can’t be offshored abroad.

So many jobs require DBS checks and 5 years of references - NHS, financial services etc.

@MRex yes and in those branches the people who work there live near by. They don’t fly in from Estonia every morning! Come on you know fine well what I’m saying.

I foresee big economic shifts coming out of this - the likes of which we haven't seen before.

Take any big City that has a lot of office/commercial real estate. That was prime real estate that is going to drop significantly in value and very suddenly. The City councils rely heavily on the rates from those offices.

Then all the businesses, small and large (eg Pret) that rely on those offices. No longer required and another source of rates gone for the Council.

Add to this the increasing trend of high street retail closures.

Will we see City Centres becoming effectively bankrupt? Higher crime? Empty properties?

On the other hand there could be a rebalancing of regions - why pay a premium for people in the South when those people could be based anywhere?

I think this will be the trend before more international outsourcing where there is more of a cultural and language/accent barrier.

Plus as a PP mentioned pensions are heavily invested in commercial real estate...

@TheMurk - you're very confused. People apply for roles near where they live, for their own convenience. It doesn't follow that the role necessarily can't be offered elsewhere, companies could always have chosen to put roles elsewhere.

BTW some companies already work on this kind of fully homeworking basis and have staff based all over the world working together.

It's not all doom and gloom though - it opens up many opportunities. No need to move to Silicon Valley for a top IT job for example...

No. Why would they put more people into the mix than they need to?

This is an interesting podcast on such a company and how they make it work (Wordpress)

samharris.org/podcasts/194-new-future-work/

Surely it should be up to employers to decide, based on productivity, and if having staff working from home works as well for the business as having them in an office does.
I don't understand why if it's ok for teachers/TAs/pupils to be in a relatively small room with 30+ other people, office workers can't return to work, when they are unlikely to sit right next to another person at the same desk.

It's not all doom and gloom though - it opens up many opportunities. No need to move to Silicon Valley for a top IT job for example...

But you won't get decent pay, since twitter has allowed staff to work from home they have reduced pay for those moving out of the area. It's not all doom and gloom, but I think some people don't see beyond yay I don't have to go into an office. Also on the flip side, if people from all over the world could apply for jobs here, yikes.

My job and all the others in my organisation can only be done by British nationals with various levels of security clearance. Simply can’t be offshored abroad

Good for you?

Although DC is coming from the civil service, and if you have different levels of clearance some of you at least are likely to need to go into the office to access certain systems. Sorry, probably no full time home working for you.