239 scientists with 1 big claim: coronavirus is airborne

[Redolent]

From The New York Times today:

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The coronavirus is finding new victims worldwide, in bars and restaurants, offices, markets and casinos, giving rise to frightening clusters of infection that increasingly confirm what many scientists have been saying for months: The virus lingers in the air indoors, infecting those nearby.

If airborne transmission is a significant factor in the pandemic, especially in crowded spaces with poor ventilation, the consequences for containment will be significant. Masks may be needed indoors, even in socially distant settings. Health care workers may need N95 masks that filter out even the smallest respiratory droplets as they care for coronavirus patients.

Ventilation systems in schools, nursing homes, residences and businesses may need to minimize recirculating air and add powerful new filters. Ultraviolet lights may be needed to kill viral particles floating in tiny droplets indoors.

The World Health Organization has long held that the coronavirus is spread primarily by large respiratory droplets that, once expelled by infected people in coughs and sneezes, fall quickly to the floor.

But in an open letter to the W.H.O., 239 scientists in 32 countries have outlined the evidence showing that smaller particles can infect people, and are calling for the agency to revise its recommendations. The researchers plan to publish their letter in a scientific journal next week.

Even in its latest update on the coronavirus, released June 29, the W.H.O. said airborne transmission of the virus is possible only after medical procedures that produce aerosols, or droplets smaller than 5 microns. (A micron is equal to one millionth of a meter.)

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Proper ventilation and N95 masks are of concern only in those circumstances, according to the W.H.O. Instead, its infection control guidance, before and during this pandemic, has heavily promoted the importance of handwashing as a primary prevention strategy, even though there is limited evidence for transmission of the virus from surfaces. (The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention now says surfaces are likely to play only a minor role.)

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www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-1-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne.html

@FizzFan

That is the thing I find most curious about this virus... Why others in households dont get it and it appears to happen often. Whether they do get it but asymptomatic? I read yesterday it was just assumed there was no natural immunity as its new but there was no evidence. Some scientists now suggest there is some level of innate immunity due to the virus having common properties with widely circulating coronavirusea. Whatevee the reason I would love to know the answer

My parents’ next door neighbour got it - confirmed case. The family is a couple with 5 kids, including ID twins, all at home due to the pandemic - teens and 20s. It’s a 3 bed semi, the 4 girls share a room. Only the dad and one child got it - at least that’s all who had symptoms. It would seem really odd that the others completely avoided infection, especially the sisters sharing a room.

Yeah I have heard loads of stories like this. My sons nursery teachers husband got it along with one of their daughters, but her and the other daughter did not. I would love to know how/why this happens

really don't understand why so many people refuse to wear masks (medical issues aside), don't wash their hands, don't want to keep distance from people they are not in close relationships with.
I honestly have no idea. I have a relative who is refusing to wear a mask because “he doesn’t want our country to be that kind of country”. What kind is that, exactly? Considerate? Clean? Healthy? I’m baffled.

Surely if this is the case then mostly everyone has had it already and therefore the mortality goes right down?

It’s also not clear why some young healthy people get barely any symptoms and others end up in ICU or worse. Unfortunately even with genetics research as advanced as it is today, I doubt we’ll be able to untangle this one in time to help us with this epidemic. There were some attempts to show that blood group is a factor, but I think it was only a matter of a few percentage points difference in numbers.
Re catching viruses in general, I’ve had the flu three times, and I’ve never given to any of the people I was living with, or friends I saw at the time.

I have a relative who is refusing to wear a mask because “he doesn’t want our country to be that kind of country”. What kind is that, exactly? Considerate? Clean? Healthy? I’m baffled.

I sort of get this. I'm core NHS and have been wearing masks at work for years, but I hate hate hate seeing them outside of clinical environments. It's a very visceral reminder of how upside down the world is right now, and leaves me feeling sick inside.

I'm aware that this is illogical. I know that the important thing is stopping disease spread. But still seeing people wearing masks to do their shopping leaves me feeling sad and scared.

@Motorina

I have a relative who is refusing to wear a mask because “he doesn’t want our country to be that kind of country”. What kind is that, exactly? Considerate? Clean? Healthy? I’m baffled.

I sort of get this. I'm core NHS and have been wearing masks at work for years, but I hate hate hate seeing them outside of clinical environments. It's a very visceral reminder of how upside down the world is right now, and leaves me feeling sick inside.

I'm aware that this is illogical. I know that the important thing is stopping disease spread. But still seeing people wearing masks to do their shopping leaves me feeling sad and scared.

I know what you mean, i get a shudder when i see a bus full of people with them on go by and I feel so sad when I see an elderly person with one on. I dont know how the nhs manage all day. I had to wear one for my post partum check at the GPs the other day, which I was happy to do. However it was a hot day and had to wait in a little queue, by the time I got to the front I was sweating to the point my temp was slightly raised and they wouldn't let me in!!

Since there has been a difference of opinion on whether it's airborne or not that will mean it is only slightly airborne. So it wafts a bit further in just the right conditions. It's not an all or nothing thing.

I definitely understand feeling sad and scared at the sight of them, and I know they can be uncomfortable to wear, I don’t enjoy wearing mine particularly. I also get an unpleasant reminder of what’s going on every time I see them.
But he means more that he doesn’t like the government telling him he has to wear one, and that it’s an infringement of our rights etc That’s a bit too close to US Trumper loony rhetoric for my liking.

@lljkk

if airborne is possible but almost never happens -- then it doesn't really matter. We need to focus energies on the main ways covid spreads.

Unless you think zero-spread is the only acceptable target. That discussion what are we actually aiming to achieve still isn't being had.

I think it's important for them to find out if it is airborne and if so under what circumstances. That has implications as things start to open up again, particularly in schools.

@Motorina

I have a relative who is refusing to wear a mask because “he doesn’t want our country to be that kind of country”. What kind is that, exactly? Considerate? Clean? Healthy? I’m baffled.

I sort of get this. I'm core NHS and have been wearing masks at work for years, but I hate hate hate seeing them outside of clinical environments. It's a very visceral reminder of how upside down the world is right now, and leaves me feeling sick inside.

I'm aware that this is illogical. I know that the important thing is stopping disease spread. But still seeing people wearing masks to do their shopping leaves me feeling sad and scared.

But isn’t that the point? They partly serve as a reminder that we’re in the middle of a global pandemic.

When I saw this article I thought 'No shit!'. We already know that Asian countries where mask-wearing is much more ingrained/normal/accepted/mandated have controlled this virus much better than western countries like the UK and US where personal choice is seen as being more important and people don't like being told to do things that are personally uncomfortable for the collective good. For months the west has resisted suggestions that mask-wearing is a game-changer when dealing with this virus. TBH, although I don't enjoy wearing a mask, I'm glad this research has come out, as it may finally persuade the vast majority to start wearing masks. I wear one if I go to a shop or other indoor public space, but hardly anyone else does.

I was told it’s a light virus that floats about for a while so if we cough or sneeze it will linger in the air. Also if it was on PPE, curtains etc. When these are removed/ moved at speed it can be disturbed & in the air again. I don’t know if that’s true or not but could mean the virus can be disturbed into the air quite easily.

Closing paragraph of the newspaper article you linked to says:

“Especially in the last couple of months, we have been stating several times that we consider airborne transmission as possible but certainly not supported by solid or even clear evidence,” she said. “There is a strong debate on this.”

The bit here - possible but certainly not supported by solid or even clear evidence ..... perhaps that is why we all haven't got it...

But isn't that the point they partly serve as a reminder that we're in the middle of a global pandemic
This is how I see things too!
I do understand how some people might find it disturbing to see everyone wearing masks, of course it is disturbing to be reminded that we are in the middle of a global pandemic but I still want to avoid getting the virus and the best way to achieve that is for all of us to practice transmission avoidance

I think it's important for them to find out if it is airborne and if so under what circumstances. That has implications as things start to open up again, particularly in schools.

Like ... what. What would be different if we knew for cast iron that covid is easily airborne, transmits as easily as measles, real r0 is 12-18, etc. What should schools do differently if we knew all that for certain?

@BumbleWumble

How is society ever going to be able to function again then unless a vaccine is found? Is it just going to be a case of survival of the fittest? Being indoors with other people will pose a huge risk, offices and other indoor workplaces, shops, restaurants, pubs, hairdressers etc.

What is the incidence of supermarket workers for example catching it though I wonder.

I can answer that. I've worked throughout the whole thing; panic buying, rationing, social distancing measures being introduced, screens etc. For a while we didn't have screens, limits on numbers, mandatory gloves etc and no social distancing or limited numbers, and it was carnage. I only work part time but we also have a large number of full time staff. We had a few people self isolate at the beginning, due to being sent home with SUSPECTED symptoms, but to be fair no one knew what was what at that time. I appreciate you might think medical information of staff members would be confidential, but believe me, if anyone at our store (staff of about 100) had caught it, that info would have gone round the place like wildfire.

I've been to the supermarket at least once a week.
Pretty much nobody wears masks in there
It has aircon
There have been very few cases round here