School from September

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What are your thoughts on the newly released information on schools returning in September? I agree that children need an education but can’t understand why other than putting the children into class sized bubbles that no other major precautions are being taken. There are no other circumstances where groups of 35 can mix without social distancing or PPE. So why is this ok for schools? I know we keep getting told that children aren’t too badly effected but they can obviously spread COVID-19 and the school in Leicester have all been closed down for this reason. I can’t help but feel cases will rise hugely putting everyone at risk.

genuinely interested, if your workplace suggested you all go back to work as normal, share desks, communal areas etc with no social distancing - would you be happy?

Yes. I'm a teacher and am genuinely looking forward to getting back into the classroom and the closer to normal, the better.

Yes, the kid might not be too badly affected physically, but the mental effect of bringing it home to their parents or grandparents with possibly awful consequences must surely be taken into account. Children don't LIVE in bubbles with no adults!

This is something that seems to have been entirely disregarded in the discussions around mental health in children. Many, many children are very worried about this virus - my daughter knows the 2m rule and gets stressed when people flout it ( which is always completely unnecessary because we live in a countryside area with loads of space).

The argument always seems to be one way 'poor kids isolated at home' well, maybe that's true for some, but what about when they're anxious and are expected to return to school as if nothing's happened knowing they could be risking their loved ones? Kids, particularly older kids, aren't stupid. They might know people in other parts of the world where children are going back to school socially distanced and wearing masks and they ask the very sensible question 'why not here?'

I don’t think the government could work it out so have basically passed the buck. I know they can’t in all lessons for senior schools but surely in some subjects the teachers could move around.

This is something that seems to have been entirely disregarded in the discussions around mental health in children. Many, many children are very worried about this virus - my daughter knows the 2m rule and gets stressed when people flout it ( which is always completely unnecessary because we live in a countryside area with loads of space).

Agree with this. I have no problem with children going back to school. I have a massive problem with the total lack of useful and evidence based guidance for schools. It is better to be honest and say - look we couldn’t get it together to support any kind of evidence based infection control - whether through recommendations or money to support better ventilation etc - so we are just taking a big gamble and if you were shielding then tough.

I know there has to be a weighing up of school benefits, economy benefits and infection control.

I think most of us get that.

However infection control has totally gone out of the window, literally, with this. I refuse to call it a plan as it isn’t one. It could have been written by most of us on the back of an envelope.

@Pixxie7

I don’t think the government could work it out so have basically passed the buck. I know they can’t in all lessons for senior schools but surely in some subjects the teachers could move around.

Completely agree. The government and public health England, and sage, have passed the buck with this as they did with care homes. Complete lack of anything useful.

Check the Independent Sage group for anything like useful advice. They are doing a weekly briefing every Friday.

This is the independent Sage (note not the actual SAGE, it is chaired by the previous Scientific Advisor David King) report on whether schools should reopen from the end of May, so much is changing that this may be a bit outdated already. It is not in response to the latest guidance.

www.independentsage.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Independent-Sage-Brief-Report-on-Schools.pdf

I have just started reading these threads again and I think I shall go back to not reading them because some people are just horrible.
The one thing we all agree is that ALL children have the right to an education. More importantly everyone has the right to keep themselves and their families alive. Shielding families shouldn't have to choose between the two. Shielding families can homeschool? So can you! What's stopping you? Do shielding families give up their rights because they have huge other challenges to deal with?
Most people here won't know what they are talking about when they give their opinion, and are not educated enough or don't care enough about the government's approach that it's ok for some to die if it gets most back at work.

Most schools don’t have the space for the bubbles. Our school hasn’t the space in the hall for lunch or outside as it is. Staggered play times are difficult. TAs normally work across classes and HLTAs are everywhere as they teach for PPA.
It is a sad end but I am not going back. I can’t take the risk with my health. It is such a difficult decision for parents and I don’t think they should be fined. Each family is different with vulnerable members in some or extended family who may normally pick up. I really feel for you all making that decision.

its Ok for some to die if it gets most back to work
Bluntly put but true! It's an unfortunate sacrifice that we have to balance I'm afraid.

We can not stop and put everything on hold indefinitely. Were only a few months in and already thousands have lost jobs, mental health has plummeted even worse than it already was, people who are ill with other illnesses are delaying seeking advice or having treatment. The effects of all those things also contribute to deaths in different ways.
Imagine that scenario if we put everything on hold for 6-12 months what world would we be coming back too.
People have to work its funds our public sector which are already feeling the pressure of lack funding, if no one Is working then that funding inevitably gets cut even further and do you know what the result of that will be? Deaths!

I have my concerns but people working in my local Tesco come into contact with 300 per hour at least. That's allowed.

It makes sense. Once we get into September it should be about preventing it coming back, not still dealing with active cases. Masks and good hygiene.

But masks aren’t allowed.

@Uhoh2020, necessary because it doesn't affect you, or would you be willing to sacrifice one of your loved ones for the greater good?
Maybe some parents need to go back to school to learn some empathy and stop saying such stupid things.

We can not stop and put everything on hold indefinitely true, no-one has argued that we should - in fact most arguing for better school infection control are doing so because we know we will avoid more lockdowns by better infection control. Many countries (all the ones with lower deaths) have mandated masks in many settings. People just aren't going to wear masks unless it's everyone doing it - easiest way is for government to mandate them in public spaces.

www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

"both pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission are possible – even common. Studies have found that viral load peaks in the days before symptoms begin and that speaking is enough to expel virus-carrying droplets"

This is why just excluding sick kids from school won't work

"two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive" one example of many where masks stopped spread

"“What you want is 100 percent of people to wear masks, but you’ll settle for 80 percent,” said Rutherford. In one simulation, researchers predicted that 80 percent of the population wearing masks would do more to reduce COVID-19 spread than a strict lockdown.'

To everyone who thinks lockdown is terrible - support the idea of masks in public places and (to some extent - I'd suggest actually consulting teachers on this) in school - far likelier to avoid future lockdowns that way.

@Someoneontheweb I have already lost someone to mental health during this pandemic was his death any less relevant because he didn't die of Coronavirus, my DM has had her routine cancer check up postponed if her cancer has returned (and theres every possibility it has because its returned 3x already) and its spread before it could have been treated is her treatment less relevant because it's not Coronavirus? Ive been made redundant my dc could end up homeless if I dont find something soon but thats ok because they haven't got Coronavirus?
Oh I've got empathy alright but I just see the bigger picture .

If I found an example of 2 hairdressers who tested positive but nobody of their 140 clients ever wore masks when seeing them and none of their clients got covid -- would that prove that masks are pointless? Sheesh, what terrible evidence.

mental health has plummeted even worse than it already was

For some, not for others. Many have benefitted. I have a friend who is a psychologist who says most of her patients are actually doing better now the pressure of 'normal life' has eased and she's had far fewer referrals (she's NHS so this is across the service). It's anecdotal, sure, but a lot of people are reporting better mental health in lockdown. It's just not true that it's bad for everyone.

I'd suggest that for some mental health will be far more affected by the order to go back to normal without even the most minimal infection control measures in place. Many children are scared to go back to school 'as normal' as they think they could catch it and pass it on to a family member, who could die.

My experience recently is that medical services, including cancer are back up and running in my area. I do agree some people have failed to go to the doctor when they otherwise should have (including for mental health) and this should be encouraged now - I think the fact that most medical settings mandate masks makes it more likely that people will go to the doctor when they need to. My GP surgery has done a great job with screens / masks etc

If I found an example of 2 hairdressers who tested positive but nobody of their 140 clients ever wore masks when seeing them and none of their clients got covid -- would that prove that masks are pointless? Sheesh, what terrible evidence.

Why don't you read the whole article? Why do you think the CDC and WHO have said we should all wear masks? Why do all scientists recommend them?

If I found an example of 2 hairdressers who tested positive but nobody of their 140 clients ever wore masks when seeing them and none of their clients got covid -- would that prove that masks are pointless?

@Langbannedforsafeguardingkids yes cancer treatments/screening are now back up and running in my area but theres a backlog to catch up. How many people have put off going to GP or hospital over something thats concerning them through fear of catching Coronavirus?

Just because I might not have had any direct consequences of covid doesn't mean they indirect consequence are any less. We are all suffering because of it just in different ways.

@Langbannedforsafeguardingkids if some are reporting better mental health in lockdown then that may well reverse when lockdown Is over and they return to normality, it's a vicious circle.

It doesn't have to be a vicious cycle. Opening up the opportunity for all to go back to school in September isn't the problem, it's not giving parents and teachers the choice whether to go back and take that risk that I think is the issue. Not supporting people to go back at their own pace if, by September, the risk is still high. Calling them wimps. Forcing people who don't want to and don't need to to go back to normality when they don't feel it's safe will be damaging to their mental health.