Schools guidance released

[Orangeblossom78]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

@user1471530109

Oh, I don't know? Masks for all secondary age students unless they are currently exempt from wearing them for SN or medical need? Just off the top of my head!

This.

@Juststopswimming

The odds basically.

We know that 20% of people get a serious case where it's like flu. 1 in 5. That's not a small figure. And it's not a case like in norovirus where it would be 48 hours of misery amnd cbeebies, likely for all of us, and then over. Kids tend to get light cases. So there's a serious possibility of single parents getting a dose that leaves them on their knees for a couple of weeks while the kids recover and are healthy and lively enough to be a danger to themselves. That's huge. And they can't even go to school to give those parents a rest because they'll be quarantined. They can't go to grandparents because grandparents are likely to be vulnerable.

1 in 5. Focus on that not the death figures. 1 in 5 single parents of small kids ill enough to not be providing adequate care to their kids for two weeks with social services already on their needs. What is going to happen to those kids?

And before you go "but you could also get flu" I will be getting a flu jab this winter for the same reason.

I don't have a magic wand. I am saying. The government feel it's safe to send all kids back in September. But the things they are putting in place just show it's not safe and they know it will spike.

They are threatening to fine parents. But there are huge variations across families and people's health. The way the country has been shut down shows how dangerous this virus is. They don't shut the country down for flu. There is no vaccine.

The long term damage this could have on some children. Four year olds starting school in circumstances where they can't get a friendly hug. They can't play in the playground with others. This could shape their love for school. This could really affect how they view the world. That's the same for all young children. We are teaching them that school isnt safe. Kids will be told off when they forget themselves and run up to teachers or touch children. They are being taught they can't play together. But the government are saying we have to take the risk and send them.

I don't want to hone school. It's impossible as I have a toddler too. Also I want my child to mix. What I don't want is school to appear so different in September that she doesn't want to go anymore. We are turning our little kids into germaphobes and giving them anxiety without even trying to.
But nobody is thinking of the future. Because kids are "resilient"

Does anyone know the science/logistics behind schools not being allowed to use community buildings as external school resources?

I know that was a thing at one point and then the DfE said it couldn't happen, but not sure what the thinking behind that was.

I would but I'm 24 and relatively healthy

Not all teachers, TAs and assorted school staff are 24 and relatively healthy. Plenty of us are over 50 with underlying conditions - plenty of serious asthma and both type 1 and type 2 diabetes amongst school staff. Not only is this plan putting us at considerable risk of contracting this virus, it is putting us at risk of contracting the virus with the high viral load which is what seems to cause the more serious illness.

If they would just commit to masks and visors and providing some (I am happy to provide my own as I am sure many teachers will be), I would be happy. But they're not even giving us that simple and relatively low cost measure.

Totally agree with @palacegirl77 - teachers and heads need to put their thinking caps on and find a way to make things work (including accepting some level of risk) otherwise they should find themselves out of a job. That’s what everyone else has had to do.

I have 3 children at different schools. The eldest 2 use public transport to travel to schools 8 miles in opposite directions from our home. The youngest's school is a 45 min walk each way or a bus. We have one car. There is no way all 3 can attend without using public transport.

I know a lot of pupils who attend schools (private or grammar) up to 40 miles from where they live, travelling by train and/or bus. Schools can't facilitate this, especially as the pupils won't all be using the same services. I can see quite a lot of pupils having to change schools, although some of the private ones will have gone bankrupt anyway.

I couldn't see recommendations for managing movement of pupils around schools. I'd heard something previously about year-groups staying together in the same and teachers rotating around rooms, which of course would mean everyone would have to study the same subjects. There is something about limiting some pupils' range of subjects to get them to focus on English & maths, which might limit their post-16 choices.

@swg1 I don't think it's thought to be one in five any more is it? It was reported that around 80% of people are asymptomatic wasnt it?

So in my child’s cosy little bubble of 300, every time one of them coughs, they will need to be tested! Surely that will result in children having to have possibly multiple tests across the winter period?

And those children that travel by bus will need to wear a mask because the maybe 10-30 other people on the bus may pose a risk to them in an enclosed space..but the 299 people that they’ll be in contact with across enclosed classrooms - no problem at all. Makes no logical sense!

Cattermole
(a) those buildings are already in use
(b) many of those buildings are nowhere near the schools
(c) how would you move hundreds of pupils between a school and a village hall every hour
(d) how many village halls have bunsen burners fitted to lab benches

@Lostmyshityear9

I would but I'm 24 and relatively healthy

Not all teachers, TAs and assorted school staff are 24 and relatively healthy. Plenty of us are over 50 with underlying conditions - plenty of serious asthma and both type 1 and type 2 diabetes amongst school staff. Not only is this plan putting us at considerable risk of contracting this virus, it is putting us at risk of contracting the virus with the high viral load which is what seems to cause the more serious illness.

If they would just commit to masks and visors and providing some (I am happy to provide my own as I am sure many teachers will be), I would be happy. But they're not even giving us that simple and relatively low cost measure.

Yeah, I know. I just answered a question of whether id be willing. I would, and I explained why I would, that's all...

I have no issue with masks or visors if that's what makes teachers feel comfortable and safe.

If they remove Life Skills and RE from the secondary curriculum then that would free had a day for my secondary. (I mean the required RE lessons not the GCSE option of RE) If they got rid of PE too that would free another 4 periods. If they did this then every year could fit in the usual number of lessons in 4 days which means less people in the building

[quote TrustTheGeneGenie]@swg1 I don't think it's thought to be one in five any more is it? It was reported that around 80% of people are asymptomatic wasnt it?[/quote]
Fairly sure they were really hoping on that 80% and then it got disproven :( They were hoping for an unseen iceberg of cases which as yet has not appeared.

@Cattermole

Does anyone know the science/logistics behind schools not being allowed to use community buildings as external school resources?

I know that was a thing at one point and then the DfE said it couldn't happen, but not sure what the thinking behind that was.

I expect it’s money.

I think that primary school aged kids are supposed to have access to child sized loos?

Also nobody knows the long term health implications of this virus as it’s only been around a few months. There may we’ll be long term implications for even the mildly affected. This isn’t scaremongering it’s being humble in the face of a novel pathogen and not being arrogant enough to assume children aren’t affected. We do not know that with certainty yet the data isn’t available.

@Lostmyshityear9

I would happily work in line with the guidance. If I thought going/working in school was dangerous I wouldn't send my children back.

If I had been made redundant recently as thousands sadly have I'd be first in the queue to work in a school

Does anyone know the science/logistics behind schools not being allowed to use community buildings as external school resources?

• not enough of them
• not enough desks/chairs/other essentials of teaching like internet access, white boards etc. Or better said, no budget to purchase a second set with
• risk assessments in such buildings would likely throw up all sorts
• getting additional staff to resource these buildings. Staff they could get would need a DBS before September - takes 4 weeks minimum as i is and more at peak times (now is a peak time because of teachers changing jobs or NQTs getting new jobs). You could relax requirements but then you have a safeguarding issue.
• travel to and/from additional buildings for senior staff changing class every hour.

@Lostmyshityear9

As a fat late forties teacher I agree

@Oaktree55

Also nobody knows the long term health implications of this virus as it’s only been around a few months. There may we’ll be long term implications for even the mildly affected. This isn’t scaremongering it’s being humble in the face of a novel pathogen and not being arrogant enough to assume children aren’t affected. We do not know that with certainty yet the data isn’t available.

Genuine question: what do you propose in the face of this uncertainty? Should we all stay at home until we do find out? If we do find our?

I would happily work in line with the guidance. If I thought going/working in school was dangerous I wouldn't send my children back

But the guidance is less stringent in schools as a workplace than it is for other work places. Why should school staff have to take greater risks?

We have established that children are less seriously affected (although point taken about long term effects and the unknown generally). I am not talking about children's safety. There is a huge difference between the children being 'safe' and an adult aged 50 being 'safe'.

Children under ten especially may find masks scary of uncomfortable

And yet masks are being worn across the world in many places, and in some areas have to be worn by all children form the age of 2.
Why are we in the UK so different that we have large numbers of people seemingly unable to wear masks?
Why are our children likely to be scared of a face mask when children all over the world appear to be managing with seeing and also wearing masks themselves?

There are going to be ongoing intermittent staffing issues if people have to get tested every time they have a cough. DH and I are teachers in two different schools and we have DC in a different primary school. One or other of us has a cough or sire throat regularly throughout the winter, so that is going to be two teachers off every time a test is needed. I'm guessing schools will need to try to find a bank of supply staff or LSAs who are allowed into different bubbles.

Also GW said that schools wouldn't necessarily close even if there were confirmed cases.

I work in a huge high school, and have been in school from Lockdown. Initially, on a key worker kids rota, and from mid June teaching a year 10 bubble.

I think this will actually work well, and is manageable. There are too many people ready to pick holes in the plans (often before they've even seen them) and criticise. These people often have unrealistic expectations, they want guarantees. Sorry, but there are no guarantees about anything regarding this virus. So we have to accept that and get on with it.

We need to understand that there will always be flaws. There will always be risk.

We will have local lock downs, and positive cases will mean that some schools will have lots of students off at one time. But that is surely better than what we have now isn't it?

There is no magic wand to protect everyone and ensure staff and kids are 100% safe. There never was before Covid, and there won't be afterwards.

It won't be an easy Autumn/Winter. But the fear and negativity isn't something we should pass on to our kids. I'm not saying we should be reckless, we should do all we can to minimise risk. But school life has to return to as close to normal as it can in the Autumn, and whilst it will be a challenge, it needs to happen for the wider well being of all of us.

I don't think it's less stringent.

I just answered your question. I suppose those teachers who are not happy will resign if they have that option. Just as those parents not happy to send their kids back to school will homeschool