Huffpost - leak on School Guidance

[PatriciaHolm]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/school-reopening-whole-year-bubbles-full-guidance-covid_uk_5ef9dd4ac5b6ca97091288e4?oo9&guccounter=1

Full document due this week, but some "highlights"...(I use the word advisedly)

• secondary bubbles of up to 240 children (essentially a year group) -No in-class social distancing requirement for primary pupils, with secondary pupils advised to stay 1m apart but not at all times -Teachers advised to keep 2m away from pupils, at the front of the class, and away from colleagues as much as possible as if in a supermarket

• Compulsory engagement with the NHS Test and Trace system, with whole classes or year groups liable to be sent home if a pupil tests positive, but whole school closure not seen as generally necessary

-No face coverings for pupils or teachers, on Public Health England advice, as they “interfere” with teaching and learning -Children seated facing forwards in same direction and not at circular tables, with pupils wearing normal uniform and washing hands throughout the day -Teachers advised to spend no more than 15 minutes at any one time closer than 1m to anyone - Fines of up to £120 for parents whose children fail to attend school. In contrast with the “softly softly” approach taken during full lockdown the message will be “education is not optional”

• Heads told not to put in any staff rota or physical distancing that would require extra space or make it impossible for all pupils to return full-time.

- Contingency plans for some or all of the school being put in local lockdown and any temporary return to “remote” teaching needing to be of a high quality -Some subjects for some or all pupils may have to be suspended for two terms to allow catch-up on core subjects such as English and maths, with a full spread of subjects returning in the summer term of of 2021 -Some pupils may have to drop some GSCEs altogether in Year 11 to allow them to catch up and achieve better grades in English and maths. GCSEs and A-levels to take place as planned next summer but with some “adaptations” - First year pupils at secondary school may have to be re-taught English and maths from their final year syllabus at primary level

I'm not convinced section 44 would allow you to refuse to work. You would need to argue adequate ppe has not been provided and that government and phe guidance is wrong. I'm sure you would not be able to do this. And if the government was taken to court, again I can't imagine any judge would rule against government policy and phe advice.

I also think the unions can't advise their members collectively to use it and would instead have to consider proposing industrial action which would involve a ballot. I really can't see that happening

Sadly face masks and goggles are the only ppe that reduce risk of airborne infection. Perspex screens etc may look reassuring but wouldn't count as ppe.

If I was a teacher that felt strongly about wearing a face mask I would provide my own. And remove it while teaching.

I’m interested to see what the bubble means in terms of staffing at secondary. Will it mean staff are only allowed to teach one year group?

Someone asked up thread about the number of contacts within 2 m for 15 mins a secondary student would have. I reckon in an average secondary school in 2 days it would be up to 120 (chosen 2 days as that is how far back tracing goes before symptoms). In each lesson it would be the 2 students on each side of the positive student and the 3 immediately in front and behind - so 10 contacts per lesson. If there are 5 lessons a day that would be 50, so 100 over 2 days. There is also registration, so a few more there. They then would spend break/lunch with their friends (you normally don't sit friends together in lessons), so maybe another 10 from that. And then whoever they travel to school with, which will depend where they live. Teachers may or may not be classed as contacts, depends on room layout - if it was a child sat at the front then they probably would be - or if it was a child that needed extra support with work.

Flagsfiend And that's just the contacts for one child. Imagine if they had a sibling who also tested positive. The number of contacts has the potential to add up pretty quickly.

Reastie I'm sure it will be the same as the NHS. You are not a contact and don't need to isolate unless you are within 2m for >15mins. You get tested but you still come into work unless you are positive. If you have symptoms yourself then you isolate but as tests are 24h turnaround now it doesn't cause too much disruption.

If it was any contact at all then wards would regularly be shutting for lack of staff and they aren't.

I think the only thing healthcare workers have got over teachers is ppe and that's only because we have to touch patients. Your own mask only protects you for about 15mins but does protect others. Patients aren't wearing masks in inpatient settings (they are in OP clinics) so it's the same as a classroom really. Healthcare workers were dying in the earlier stages of the outbreak but not now.

I have been going to work throughout and I feel reasonably safe especially now that cases are reducing so the chances of being a contact are less. There is not zero risk but there is not zero risk in life. Maybe I would feel differently if I was vulnerable or lived with someone vulnerable. Again we have individual risk assessments in the NHS and surely education will be the same. If you have a good reason why you are at very high risk you might be excused face to face work but that should be very few people. If you are vulnerable eg asthma then you would get reasonable adjustments eg enhanced ppe or let off higher risk work.

Theld thank you for your take on it. Are staff no longer dying as much because of the mitigations and testing now in place or is it because the stats are much lower for cases atm?

Reastie I suspect most staff have either had covid or are immune to a greater or lesser extent. An interesting article I read recently suggested the common cold could provide some immunity.

There has been no real change in ppe throughout. More testing means an asymptotic staff member is sent home it positive. But non of their colleagues would be as we all wear ppe.

Would be interesting to hear others take/experience on it as obviously that's just my opinion!

I think if it was made mandatory and everyone else was wearing one, kids wouldn't have a problem. Most children I know just want to fit in, I think if all teachers and children were wearing masks most of the time, they'd mostly be keen to comply.

My experience of wearing a mask is that is really isn't an issue for communication. Obviously there would need to be alternative solutions where there are deaf children who lip read, but that shouldn't prevent the majority taking this easy, low-cost and effective way to reduce virus spread. If 99% of students wore masks then it would still provide a good level of protection.

I think largely because there is less around now and because in the early days people were exposed unwittingly and did not take precautions and now we are all much more careful.

I have been exposed at close quarters to quite a number of positive patients and have not had it so I have come to the conclusion it's harder to catch than people might think and that hand washing etc does work. Many of my colleagues on red Covid wards haven't had it either. No ITU staff have died although staff in other specialties have.

My antibody test was negative and so were most of my colleagues even those who were sure they'd had it so I don't think it's immunity.

I do feel safe to go to work now and I didn't always at the start. I went because it is my job and my duty but I did feel I was taking a risk that I accepted and I feel less like that now. I feel like now more is known about the virus, I can use ppe and wash my hands in higher risk situations and I can get tested quickly so there is less uncertainty which is always the worst.
I find the testing very helpful because in the past it was an anxious 7-14 days waiting to see if you would get really ill. Now in 24h you can know that you are OK.

I went to hospital recently and all patients required to wear masks (as did staff). People who turned up without masks were given them.

A friend ended up in A&E recently - he was given a mask in the ambulance and encouraged to wear it.

Had to take my child for immunisations at GP practice 3 weeks ago - got a text asking patients to please wear a face covering.

So my experience of healthcare settings is that masks are strongly encouraged.

Outpatient- yes largely as a measure to reduce community transmission overall rather than to protect staff per se (as it's a recent introduction)

Inpatient- has not been and still isn't the case as far as I know. Patients are not wearing masks on our ward certainly unless they actively choose to.

Through most of the pandemic patients have not been wearing masks as there were not enough.
Maybe now that supplies are better it will be encouraged more. I don't think my very mentally ill patients will comply in any case.

I do support children and teachers wearing masks in school though and I would campaign for that as an overall risk reduction measure.

Everyone keeps saying about how important washing hands are and this something else I think should be addressed in schools. We really don't have enough sinks for all students and staff to wash their hands regularly with soap and water for 20s. Lots of pictures of other countries show outdoor sinks, I'm assuming they weren't there before the pandemic. I don't understand why the government don't give every school money to fit loads of extra sinks. I looked up the sink guidance - a school with 2000 students could legally have only 70 sinks - if each student had to wash hands for 20 s it would take 10 minutes for all students to wash their hands properly.

Yeah I'd say less than 10% inpatients wear a mask. And I work on covid ward! Those that do don't wear properly

You say about washing hands, which is incredibly important. I teach over 120 kids a day from year 7 to 11. I teach in a school of 2000 kids. We have 240 in a year, which is now apparently a 'bubble' (for kids, not for teachers).

There is no toilet in my building. No sink. Nothing. If anyone in our block of english teachers wants to wash their hands, we have to leave the building. Most student toilets are closed most of the time due to vandalism. Washing hands wont happen. This isn't an office. It's a school jammed to the brim with kids, about twice as many kids as the corridors and exits and toilets were originally designed for.

Alcohol gel?

@havefunpeleton

Alcohol gel?

Remember schools aren't getting any additional money for cleaning or precautions. Alcohol gel is significantly more expensive than soap. It is also a fire risk and harmful if swallowed (which some kids would try if just left out).

We set up hand gel stations in my school in the week before lockdown. By break it had either been stolen or squirted out onto the floor.

Remember schools aren't getting any additional money for cleaning or precautions

What are you likely to be spending extra discretionary funds on?

Even if it’s small what will it go on?

You would need to argue adequate ppe has not been provided and that government and phe guidance is wrong.

Isn't the point of section 44 (and I read this a fair while ago so I might be mistaken) that the employee can refuse to work if they consider it is unsafe to do so, even if it is later proved that they were mistaken, but there is no penalty to the employee?

So, on the face of it, government advice is that all workplaces should be Covid secure, social distancing of 2 metres, where that isn't possible 1 metre + with mitigation which includes PPE. But schools are the exception to the rules that are applied to all other workplaces.

Is it not for the employer, or government at least, to show evidence that supports this stance?

The situation in Leicester, and Matt Hancock's statement, appears to disprove the assertion that children don't transmit it, so how is there a low.or no risk to teachers? I wonder if deshielded teachers are expected back because that seems entirely contrary to the advice given to shielded people which is that you can return to work.so long as your work place is Covid secure.

Plenty of judges could rule against it. They ruled against lots of Brexit and governmental stuff.

Inpatient- has not been and still isn't the case as far as I know. Patients are not wearing masks on our ward certainly unless they actively choose to.

Are they not tested prior to admission or, in the case of emergency, isolated until a negative test is obtained?

I've got a family member undergoing chemo and she is tested a few days before she's admitted for chemo, and that's every two weeks. So patients might not be wearing masks as inpatients but steps are taken to ensure that they are negative for Covid.

I had to wear a mask and have my temperature checked before attending outpatients on Tuesday. Maybe schools should at least check temperatures before students go into school?

I heard last night that the strategy for schools was released and included the advice that start and finish times for going into school must be staggered so how will that affect secondary schools? All lessons start and finish together don't they? You can't have lessons finishing and starting at random times throughout the day.

My school cannot afford for me to print. To accidentally print a colour page is reason for my HOD to reprimand me. How can it afford hand gel for each individual student?

Not to mention, as a PP has said, some students cannot be trusted not to vandalise the wall mounted ones, or squirt it into people's eyes, or ingest it, or squirt it on the floor so they can skid down the corridor or trip someone up for a youtube video, or set it on fire 'for a laugh'.

The discretionary fund only covers cleaning if you have a confirmed or suspected case. It says to cover increased hygiene using existing budget. I think this is wrong, that is what I'm trying to explain - the government should give more money for hygiene now to prevent it spreading in schools, not just money to clear up the mess if it does spread.