Huffpost - leak on School Guidance

[PatriciaHolm]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/school-reopening-whole-year-bubbles-full-guidance-covid_uk_5ef9dd4ac5b6ca97091288e4?oo9&guccounter=1

Full document due this week, but some "highlights"...(I use the word advisedly)

• secondary bubbles of up to 240 children (essentially a year group) -No in-class social distancing requirement for primary pupils, with secondary pupils advised to stay 1m apart but not at all times -Teachers advised to keep 2m away from pupils, at the front of the class, and away from colleagues as much as possible as if in a supermarket

• Compulsory engagement with the NHS Test and Trace system, with whole classes or year groups liable to be sent home if a pupil tests positive, but whole school closure not seen as generally necessary

-No face coverings for pupils or teachers, on Public Health England advice, as they “interfere” with teaching and learning -Children seated facing forwards in same direction and not at circular tables, with pupils wearing normal uniform and washing hands throughout the day -Teachers advised to spend no more than 15 minutes at any one time closer than 1m to anyone - Fines of up to £120 for parents whose children fail to attend school. In contrast with the “softly softly” approach taken during full lockdown the message will be “education is not optional”

• Heads told not to put in any staff rota or physical distancing that would require extra space or make it impossible for all pupils to return full-time.

- Contingency plans for some or all of the school being put in local lockdown and any temporary return to “remote” teaching needing to be of a high quality -Some subjects for some or all pupils may have to be suspended for two terms to allow catch-up on core subjects such as English and maths, with a full spread of subjects returning in the summer term of of 2021 -Some pupils may have to drop some GSCEs altogether in Year 11 to allow them to catch up and achieve better grades in English and maths. GCSEs and A-levels to take place as planned next summer but with some “adaptations” - First year pupils at secondary school may have to be re-taught English and maths from their final year syllabus at primary level

What are the unions saying?

I would imagine the unions are waiting to see what the guidelines will be tomorrow.

My secondary state school provides all of the staff with vouchers to get flu vaccinations every year. As did my previous school.
It is obviously variable

We are also allowed to take appropriate avoidance if there is eg a chicken pox case in school and you have been shown to be not immune in pregnancy. Same sort of thing for Tb - when there was a case the school provided vaccinations for all staff who needed them. Employers have a duty of care against all risks.

Havefunpenelton we're kind of up in the air - by the end of tomorrow everyone is on summer holiday, the plan to return without social distancing was announced last week by the Scottish parliament and there has been no guidance about how this will work, in particularly with regard to staff safety and the safety of older pupils (not disregarding the younger ones but 17 year oldS sitting with few cms between them doesn't sound like a great plan). I suspect a lot will happen in the last couple of weeks of the holidays (which will be first two weeks of August)

@Piggywaspushed

Sorry pooie but this is not true:

All teachers, unless they opt out, are given the vaccination

I have never had flu vaccine.

Same here until our Gp surgery starting offering it to parents of asthmatic children.

I can confirm that we have compulsory ppe in psych hospitals too.

We have masks (just paper ones) at all times even in non clinical areas and gloves and aprons if in close contact with patients. Visors only if there's a risk of spitting.

I've personally been in frequent, close contact with positive patients and I haven't had it (antibodies-ve) which I assume means ppe and especially handwashing (which I am anal about) does work.

We are NHS though and this is standard NHS guidance. Maybe the poster up thread is private sector?

handwashing (which I am anal about)

Well, I should hope so if you will keep rummaging!!

I don't understand why people are so excited about screens though. If particles are airborne they can get past around/ above a screen. It's only going to stop very obvious spluttering. Anyone wearing a visor in a health service context is also wearing a mask which whilst far more annoying and inconvenient is far more effective. So it's like extra protection not instead of the mask. I personally would support staff and pupils wearing masks but would not support plastic bubbles which I think is unnecessary.

Testing is a lot faster and more available than at the outset. I've had a load of antigen swabs now after being exposed and reliably had results next day so I don't think any disruption due to track and trace will be really bad as you can be back at work very quickly if -ve. If there actually is a positive it would be more disruptive but this is fortunately increasingly unlikely. I do feel positive that by Sept risks will have reduced although there will be local outbreaks still.

Piggywaspushed must be my borough in London. Thought it was all teachers.

My understanding is that there's a 3-4 week lag between increasing cases and increasing hospitalisation

My next day test results were for postal tests BTW. It really does work pretty well now. Result gets texted to you next day.

NHS rules are that you only count as being in contact with a positive person and therefore have to self isolate if you spent more than 15mins with them, within 2m (presumably shortly to reduce to 1m) and not wearing PPE (otherwise the whole staff team would be off if 1 person got it). As the rules are that you should not be doing any of these things then you should not be a contact so you can still work but you get tested.

I assume that in a school the same applies and that is why the whole school doesn't need to shut if 1 pupil gets it and only those in 15mins would have to self isolate and then only until they get their test results back. Surely all 240 in a bubble are unlikely to have that level of contact with the index case?

@theld - yes private. Do support workers wear gloves and aprons at all times when in contact with patients (i.e most of the time)? How often do they change them?

Yes. Rules are same for all Drs, nurses, HCAs. The rules are 1 mask all shift (unless it gets wet or contaminated) change apron and gloves and wash hands between all close contacts with patients ie if touching but not if just talking. Sometimes a bit tricky if another patient accosts you before you have a chance to change but mostly works out OK. We have had enough ppe all along apart from a bit dicey on mask supply at the very start. Some people thought we should have gowns and hair coverings and better masks but those are reserved for aerosol generating procedures which is only ECT in a psych context.

The issue is that the government has released workplace guidance that says that masks should be worn indoors, where possible, where distancing isn’t possible.

It then claims that wearing masks in school would interfere with teaching and learning. But it would still be possible to wear a mask. It’s not like dentistry where you can’t drill someone’s tooth if they’ve got a mask on.

If it interferes with teaching and learning, how much? Is it more or less than the interference to teaching and learning due to school closures? Loss of teachers due to sick leave (that’s why some schools pay for free flu jabs, to keep the teachers in school teaching, not to stop them dying!)?
And if it interferes that badly, how come other countries are managing with masks in schools?

Where is the risk assessment that shows that the risk of not wearing masks for teachers and students is acceptable when other mitigation is also not in place?

I think everyone should have masks just not screens. I think screens aren't worth the money and disruption for the amount of benefit. They are not an equivalent protection to masks. They'd be better off installing more sinks for handwashing if any infrastructure changes are being made.

On other threads though teachers have said that secondary kids would be a nightmare with masks and it would be an excuse for messing around and cause conflict....so maybe that is what the government is responding to.

We have found that even mentally unwell and confused patients in hospital are quite accepting of the masks and ppe (proved me wrong I'll admit) so I am fairly sure kids would not be frightened. Not hearing as well is the main issue. Obviously we are not making the patients actually wear masks though. I don't think most would accept that (they can do if they choose to though)

@theld - sounds good. It is a bit crazy here so would be hard to change in between each patient which of course defeats the object! I have seen staff in the Mental health unit at a general hospital wearing full on gown, visa, hair covering while at a long distance much more than the staff in the A&E hot area were wearing!

Where is the risk assessment that shows that the risk of not wearing masks for teachers and students is acceptable when other mitigation is also not in place?

Exactly

[quote havefunpeleton]@Mistressiggi that's absolutely your right. I hope your a member of a union who is prepared to pay to fund your case that phe guidance is wrong. Otherwise I assume anyone who did this would be subject to the usual disciplinary procedures and ultimately sacked.[/quote]
You have legal protection I believe under section 44. I read a link on my Facebook page posted by a university professor and I'm sure that anyone refusing to work on these grounds are protected.

I am quite sure that after the second or third time a bubble bursts in a school, or school has to shut because too many staff are isolating due to a bubble bursting, that parents will be demanding staff and students wear masks if it will keep school open.

If a year group of 240 students is a bubble how many of the school staff will be exposed to them over a few days or a week? If one of those students then tests positive how many staff will have to isolate too?

This just feels like a no brainer to me. We have to open up the economy now so surely it means taking as few risks as possible of another outbreak. Why wouldn't we all be doing everything possible to minimise it?

If a year group of 240 students is a bubble how many of the school staff will be exposed to them over a few days or a week? If one of those students then tests positive how many staff will have to isolate too?

This was my thought too. Or will they only count teachers who have been within 2m for more than 15 minutes at a time to limit teachers off isolating? The mask thing is tricky as I’d be happy, as a teacher, to wear one, but that would be protecting other people rather than me, and I can’t see them getting all students to wear masks, but it would make a lot of difference if they did.

I don't understand how this guidance will work in practice? I'm based in a school where year groups are between 300 and 400 students? So how can all children return 5 days a week?

Where is the risk assessment that shows that the risk of not wearing masks for teachers and students is acceptable when other mitigation is also not in place?

This. I'll be asking my MP this.

I cannot for the life of me see how year bubbles will work in terms of start times, breaks etc.

Also what the point of them is with so many siblings in different year groups and teachers working across year groups.

And with massive bubbles, if one child gets COVID, that means 200 or more having to self-isolate for a fortnight. This only has to happen a few times for months more education to be lost.