Why does the NEU say that teachers should not be expected to mark work during the pandemic?

[Thenagainmaybenot]

The national education union says that:
'Worksheets and textbook pages for maths and English can work if they are already used in school and all children have them at home. However, teachers cannot be expected to mark work. Schools should not be setting SATs tests or mocks at this time.'

Why shouldn't teachers be expected to mark work? Fair enough they shouldn't be marking as much as they do normally, but (say) 1-2 maths and english tasks per week to be marked is surely reasonable?

Shocking! Almost like they don't really give a shit.

oh what a surprise - teachers blaming parents and the "Tory government" for failures in education.

I used to work for The National Strategies, an organisation set up by the last Labour government via the DFES, as it was called then, to improve standards and push best practice. Since disbanding a number of us former employees have set up chains of very successful academies.

Surprise surprise, teachers also hated the Nationsl Strategies. They also hate academies. In fact, the only thing teachers seem to want is zero oversight and a Marxist state.

But obviously I don't deserve a voice because I don't know what I'm talking about *whistles

But you’re not actually a teacher working in a classroom with all the responsibility that entails?

@commentatorz Are you suggesting individual teachers should blame themselves then? Have a talk to themselves in the mirror then pull their socks up at work, instead of feeling let down by their 'employers', the UK government?

Should they go to school, tell the headteacher 'I've decided I'm going to teach a different way now' and then the headteacher will say 'go for it, I'm the boss so I can bend the rules'?

Do you believe that anybody who is employed in the education sector at headteacher level and below has any autonomy over what they do? That they don't feel like salmon going upstream?

Because if so, that's extremely narrow minded.

It's well-documented why the National Strategies failed. Teachers hated them for the same reason Ofsted hated them, for the same reason Ed Balls scrapped them.

It's not Marxist to say when something is bollocks.

Actually the National Strategies ran throughout the entire term of the Labour government (97 thru 2011) and the expectation was that there would be an extension if they took that election.

They did a lot of good work, much of which is still regarded as best practice today and were made up of best in class practitioners, educational experts and regional advisors. Bit rich to speak for Ofsted too, when that relationship (and ofqual) was very strong.

But thanks for proving my point that it isnt "the Tories" or "funding" that teachers hate, but oversight and accountability. And yes at the time none of you blamed the Labour party even though it was their creation, because your unions were all in bed with them.

I'm guessing you all hate Ofsted too, right? Pesky bastards who might uncover incompetence at a trans scale.

grand not trans

teachers blaming parents and the "Tory government" for failures in education.

Have you not seen the absolute shitshow the “Tory government” made of the FSM vouchers? And having to be told your job by a celebrity footballer? And the laptops for the disadvantaged that still haven’t arrived? And the guidance that they put out and then lied about? And the total lack of guidance about that expectations of schools regarding remote teaching? Even Ofsted pulled them up on that one.

Oh and it’s also their fault that there’s a critical shortage of teachers.

There’s a lot to complain about isn’t there?

Look, fair play, I can see you're touchy about the National Strategies but having justified concerns about certain initiatives, imposed by any party, does not make anyone a Marxist or prove that anyone hates accountability or oversight. I hope you're not in charge of history or politics at any of your super-academies.

@commentatorz

Actually the National Strategies ran throughout the entire term of the Labour government (97 thru 2011) and the expectation was that there would be an extension if they took that election.

They did a lot of good work, much of which is still regarded as best practice today and were made up of best in class practitioners, educational experts and regional advisors. Bit rich to speak for Ofsted too, when that relationship (and ofqual) was very strong.

But thanks for proving my point that it isnt "the Tories" or "funding" that teachers hate, but oversight and accountability. And yes at the time none of you blamed the Labour party even though it was their creation, because your unions were all in bed with them.

I'm guessing you all hate Ofsted too, right? Pesky bastards who might uncover incompetence at a trans scale.

The National Strategies were overly prescriptive and are absolutely NOT regarded as 'best practice' today. Why were they introduced? You'll already know this - They were introduced by David Blunkett in an attempt to address the underachievement engendered by 20 years of tory underinvestment in education. Ring any bells? We've moved on. One size fits all won't cut it anymore. I'll tell you what teachers hate ... we hate not being able to do our jobs properly due to lack of resources, we hate having to check if half the class have had any breakfast (or in some cases any tea), we hate having to deliver food parcels (because we shouldn't have to in this day and age), we hate everybody having an opinion on how we do our job, our abilty, our morals, our 'vocation' because, you know, they went to school once. I could go on ... OFSTED? Meh. Not so much. Just a perk of the job.

When there are subjects that haven't had any feedback since starting home learning, how is the best way to approach it though?
The vast majority of teachers at dd school have gone above and beyond so I would hate for anyone to think I'm just blasting teachers. It's a really tricky thing to address.

You can only ask Happy - it shouldn't be that some subjects are receiving feedback and some are. Probably the school aren't aware of it. Nobody will think any the worse of you for asking.

@commentatorz I'm still struggling to understand what you are suggesting teachers do instead? How will accepting the benefits of the now defunct National Strategies help towards the problems that teachers are currently so heavily affected by? For one thing, whether they agree with the 'best practices' or not they are still dutifully sticking to them. It's not like there are schools full of rogue teachers that ignore government guidelines and teach how they want instead. Which government was it that disbanded your National Strategies? Was it Labour? Wasn't 2011 the coalition government?

Also if Ofsted are finding incompetence at a grand scale amongst ground level teaching staff, why aren't they doing anything about it? Is it actually teachers who are persisting with poor practice, or is it the government enforcing it to cut costs?

Please. Indulge me, as a lay person. How will stopping complaining about Tory failures lead teachers and schools to get the funding and support they require?

@HappyMcHappiness

When there are subjects that haven't had any feedback since starting home learning, how is the best way to approach it though? The vast majority of teachers at dd school have gone above and beyond so I would hate for anyone to think I'm just blasting teachers. It's a really tricky thing to address.

It can be tricky Happy. I would contact the teacher in the first instance and maybe ask for some pointers for DD to help her progress. If that gets no joy I would suggest speaking to HOY possibly. We’ve had feedback passed on generically from HOYs when things haven’t been done right eg some teachers were using impersonal comments that felt copied and pasted and we were asked to make sure to make personal comments if we weren’t already. Then I know they followed this up with a couple of specific individuals separately. I also think if you say what you’ve said here that so many have gone above and beyond, and name them, it means as a school we can find our best practice and try our best to share it. Of course it may be that, that personal teachers circumstances are tricky for many reasons, or they just could be a bit rubbish. Always worth asking though.

eg some teachers were using impersonal comments that felt copied and pasted and we were asked to make sure to make personal comments if we weren’t already.

What's wrong with C&P of students have the same misconceptions? I'd have batted this one back and said no to parents. Feedback doesn't need to be completely individual.

What is the remit of the DfE? With the whole zoom controversy, topics taught, feedback, I would have thought they would set policy and guidelines:

Ie even though zoom is a risk, if you implement it in this way with these safeguards, we deem the risk low. OR - zoom is too high a risk for safeguarding reasons.

Why don’t parents and teachers demand that DfE give specific guidance on issues like zoom?

I actually think DfE guidance on zoom lessons wouldn't help. They'd probably be all for them because they 'work' in private schools, without considering contexts where they wouldn't be best practice.

Interesting question about what is their role. Gavin Williamson commented on teachers setting their desks out in rows facing the front and has been hounded on twitter for interfering. I don't think its his role to comment on pedagogical methods like seating. Different contexts have different needs and a blanket policy won't work. Primary is often better in groups.

The DfE SHOULD be coming up with guidance for September ASAP. Currently schools have nothing beyond Boris "they'll be back in September" comment.

Namenic

Our local authority designated safeguarding officer has produced guidelines for schools to follow when using platforms like zoom. I think it’s absolutely right that this advice comes from safeguarding experts rather than the DFE.

The trouble with any blanket advice from the DFE is that schools are in such different circumstances. At my primary school only 30% of children have access to devices and sometimes this is just a smartphone with limited data (no WiFi). Zoom isn’t right for us. But it might be for other schools.

Primary teacher here. We set lessons every day and we mark all work. Children complete it at home, parents upload photos and videos, we mark and comment. Not difficult. As a parent with a child in year 9, same thing. We print off or he copies it out into his book, then he takes the photo and uploads it via the app. Teacher marks it and sends comments back. I genuinely don't understand schools who say this is not possible. I totally disagree with the NEU and so does every teacher I know, who have all worked full time throughout this pandemic and are all now back in school, 8-6 most days as usual.

Forgot to say we filmed all of our lessons up until July 1st when we were all back in school full time, since then we've done one daily video and shared the tasks, but majority of parents are still happy with the level of contact.

Thanks useruser and herc.
I guess then to be constructive, the DfE should explicitly state a policy of it being decided by local authority safeguarding lead depending on: percentage of class able to access, risk of incidents (eg age groups)...

Maybe then parents would understand what the decision is based on rather than not knowing why it is patchy over the country.

In healthcare they have a national multidisciplinary body - NICE which decides on evidence based guidelines. Is there and should there be one for education?

I've been marking work right through this pandemic - work is submitted through our school's repository.

We then download - mark and record comments in the appropriate box. Children receive an email accordingly to alert them to the feedback.

State secondary school 1200 students!

Our SLT made it very clear what the school's expectations were.

I think education should come completely out of political control and be overseen by experts and research used. However that's a pipe dream! There are some research bodies developing that inform policy however they can be "selective" in their research selection and aren't impartial.

Even the LA making the decision won't be appropriate in some cases, some LAs will say yes and some no. It needs to be on an individual school level with their whole context considered. Schools should share their reasons/risk assessment. A lot of parents complaints could be mitigated by better communication from schools. I think this is a major issue countrywide.

@Hercwasonaroll

eg some teachers were using impersonal comments that felt copied and pasted and we were asked to make sure to make personal comments if we weren’t already.

What's wrong with C&P of students have the same misconceptions? I'd have batted this one back and said no to parents. Feedback doesn't need to be completely individual.

It was a valid comment from a parent at the time about a couple of teachers who basically made one or two quite bland, generic comments that didn’t help anybody particularly. It was right it was challenged and right it was followed up in this case. It wasn’t a case of useful feedback on a similar misconception. We’re talking maybe two teachers out of a school of over 70 teachers. It wasn’t something that would have picked up had a parent not mentioned it.

@nameric I think many LAs did offer advice to schools in their area. I know our schools worked closely with the LA and each other to be as consistent as possible. With everything however it was always just guidance. One major problem with all this is that there are many schools that no longer fall under LA control now so academies etc. can do what they want and the resources aren’t the same at schools.

This thread is nothing to with ‘live’ lessons but as I’ve already stated we have too many families without access to tech and internet. Or one device between however many people in a household. The advice was to NOT provide live lessons as it wasn’t accessible to far too many and instead to provide work that families could be flexible about accessing. This equally causes problems with feedback for many as getting work from families without internet and tech also wasn’t very feasible.