Why does the NEU say that teachers should not be expected to mark work during the pandemic?

[Thenagainmaybenot]

The national education union says that:
'Worksheets and textbook pages for maths and English can work if they are already used in school and all children have them at home. However, teachers cannot be expected to mark work. Schools should not be setting SATs tests or mocks at this time.'

Why shouldn't teachers be expected to mark work? Fair enough they shouldn't be marking as much as they do normally, but (say) 1-2 maths and english tasks per week to be marked is surely reasonable?

thank you @FluffyPJs and @nodtik for your common sense, hard work and most of all exemplifying a can-do attitude during this horrible crisis to make sure as many children as possible progress through learning.

My final thoughts on this topic is that parents will really be getting an insight into their school's management and compliance structure at this time, and once testing resumes will see huge chasm appear between the good schools and bad ones. I look forward to that transparency, and hope there will be the flexibility to remove SLT and teacher groups where incompetence and negligence are found.

My DDs teachers write feedback and give marks, it really cheers her up and also helps her understand where she has gone wrong. We submit work through teams and then it’s returned. She can also communicate with the teachers if She has a question. I guess some schools have a better system in place than others.

I look forward to that transparency, and hope there will be the flexibility to remove SLT and teacher groups where incompetence and negligence are found

This has always been available.

hope there will be the flexibility to remove SLT and teacher groups where incompetence and negligence are found.

As echt says, the ability has always been there. What there isn’t, and hasn’t been for a while, is anyone to replace them with.

There’s a critical shortage of teachers, there aren’t super teachers waiting in the wings for a job to come up. There’s going to be an even bigger crisis with a lack of headteachers in the future- the DfE have treated them appallingly.

and once testing resumes will see huge chasm appear between the good schools and bad ones

This is such a massive misunderstanding of what is important in this situation.

My children's work is being marked, infant, junior and secondary. It's obviously not that hard otherwise that wouldn't t be my experience across 4 different year groups.

My final thoughts on this topic is that parents will really be getting an insight into their school's management and compliance structure at this time, and once testing resumes will see huge chasm appear between the good schools and bad ones. I look forward to that transparency, and hope there will be the flexibility to remove SLT and teacher groups where incompetence and negligence are found.
I fear you've rather missed the point and seem to have an oversimplistic view of what a good school is.

High stakes accountability already exists in education. The vast majority of schools are doing what they can in unprecedented circumstances (and I'd be willing to bet that one of the major consequences of lockdown is an explosion in addition interventions being placed at the feet of class teachers). Schools not marking work aren't doing it because they feel like they can't be bothered.

There isn't a queue of people waiting to be heads and there's not a queue of people wanting to be teachers. Out of interest what do you propose happens if all the people who haven't done things to your satisfaction are sacked?

and once testing resumes will see huge chasm appear between the good schools and bad ones

Broadly we will see what we always see: the 'good' (aka middle class catchment) schools will get the same results as always, the 'bad' (aka in the middle of a deprived catchment) schools will get the same results as always. Because the kids in the middle class schools will have had access to the internet, devices to work on, and parents able to stand over them whilst they're furloughed from their jobs. Kids in the not so good on paper schools will get lower grades, as always, because they are dealing with major issues like poverty, access to internet, a parent who is able to stand over them rather than rushing around to a minimum wage job etc. etc. etc. Granted, some previously good schools may see a dip in results if staff have taken their eye off the ball but in the big scheme of things, schools shift up and down every year anyway.

I am not sure what you are expecting to see but I'll eat my proverbial hat if there's suddenly massive shifts in the league tables after this.

Out of interest what do you propose happens if all the people who haven't done things to your satisfaction are sacked?

If previous threads are anything to go by, there is an expectation that the millions of unemployed will be queuing up to teach and will show us all how it's done. Quite who will mentor and support them I don't know, if the rest of us have to leave due to our incompetence, but of course any idiot with a degree can stand in front of a class and get excellent results from day one. Early retirement here I come!

If previous threads are anything to go by, there is an expectation that the millions of unemployed will be queuing up to teach and will show us all how it's done. Quite who will mentor and support them I don't know, if the rest of us have to leave due to our incompetence, but of course any idiot with a degree can stand in front of a class and get excellent results from day one. Early retirement here I come!

This.

So many unconscionably dozy fuckers posting their incompletely- baked ideas about a job they know fuck-all about.

Early retirement here I come!
Looks like you're already there -plenty of time to post on MN on a school day.
The argument that we need to keep the rubbish teachers because there is no/one to replace them is a shockingly cynical stance- can't believe the good teachers are happy working alongside shirkers.

The argument that we need to keep the rubbish teachers because there is no/one to replace them is a shockingly cynical stance

You clearly have zero idea of the current state of education. This is absolutely happening at schools across the country, especially in shortage subjects like maths.

You know in countries where schools are prioritised as essential investment and are well funded, have excellent resources and follow what works rather than political whims there are indeed people queuing up wanting to be teachers and they attract excellent candidates.

Perhaps those are the things teachers and parents should be campaigning for together rather than blaming it on the teachers who are somehow sticking it out.

Why does anyone think we have so much trouble recruiting and retraining teachers? Why do people think there’s such poor levels of support for send kids? Do you really think it’s because teachers are all a bit shit and if so why can’t better candidates be attracted to the profession?

As a teacher I’m not going to argue against the idea that education in this country is pretty shit and that some teachers aren’t really fit for the profession.

As a parent who’s also a teacher, so can’t not know what I know, I’m gutted that my son is subjected to the standard of education that he gets. And how stacked the odds against the odds of actually meaningfully learning are in school for a million reasons.

We treat schools as babysitting and sadly sometimes juvenile detention centres in this country.

Blaming the teachers who stick around in such a broken system and demanding they have less worker safety eg no sd is shortsighted to say the least.

Schools need massive investment and change and to become places people want to work and learn in

My 13 year old son hasn’t had a maths teacher with English as their first language or any classroom management skills for 2 years.

I’m an re teacher being used as a science teacher.

We don’t have enough desks in some classrooms.

I haven’t seen a ta in my lesson in over a year despite teaching more students with incredibly high sen than I’ve ever had before.

Schools are fucked! You think we like it that way?

Year 1 teacher here...I've marked (ie written comments on) anything that parents have sent to me on our online platform. We use Seesaw which has been great. To be honest though, only about a quarter of my class have sent anything to me (but the ones that have, have done so religiously 🥰)

I do weekly online videos, phonics sessions, and read stories so I do get to see some of my class regularly, but not all of them.

I have tried to encourage everyone to engage more, sent out the QR codes weekly, sent an 'easy quick link' in case the QR code was a bit scary, given my school email address and said 'email me instead!!' But nothing has worked sadly to engage more parents. Just hoping they are all doing ok 💓🤞

The argument that we need to keep the rubbish teachers because there is no/one to replace them is a shockingly cynical stance

So where are you going to get all these extra teachers from? We have 4 different subject teachers teaching maths from September. Those kids won't be getting a good deal pedagogically. We need to keep the teachers we've got.

TheHoneyBadger
Very well said.

Too many people have too much time on their hands having a go at those of us still in the profession.

There have been times when had to plan and mark work for unqualified, non-specialist cover staff and had no additional time or pay to do this. I didn't enjoy it. I did it because I supported my school leaders, who were also doing their share, and I cared about those students.

You only have to look on Mumsnet some days to see why the profession isn't appealling to many. There's education sector issues and then on top of that there's a loud minority of parents who positively delight in demanding meetings, trying to get people sacked, telling their child the rules don't apply to them and so on.

There is, usually, a gap between beaurocratic theory and front line, and between, as mentioned by other posters, a can-do attitude with innovative flexibility, and the rest.

There's a wealth of potential labour force for extra teaching, and even one to one tutoring, and some of it would be gladly offered free, and always has been.

e.g. a child social worker has taken early retirement, but she always did like to go the extra mile for some disadvantaged or disabled children, so she is continuing with over-the phone or online reading and just paying attention, to take pressure off mothers. She says that earlier in her career, social workers and care workers did have a 'Sit by Nelly' scheme, where full time workers were 'shadowed' by trainees and volunteers. It is perfect if a care worker can fill in paperwork while an assistant makes the tea and a volunteer makes phone calls and gets shopping, or if the teacher can delegate some follow up work to an assistant, online or at home.

Since invention of technology, (or even Open University) it's time to forget the centuries old idea that teaching must be what gets done to children or teenagers in a year group, in a building, in certain hours and certain term times, with everyone expected to be talked at, and to learn at the same pace.

People are unemployed, people are retired (some from age 50 to 100), people are working part time, people are at home because they or someone else is disabled or is shielded, people are trained teachers burned out, disillusioned, or simply scared of attack in classrooms, or keen to teach but frustrated by the inability, in old style classrooms, to pay attention to the different needs of the advanced and the struggling pupil, while one or two troubled children are out of control.

Children, meanwhile, are sometimes (often) scared of bullies in traditional school settings. Sometimes teacher is scary, sometimes, teacher is scared. A child with chaos at home, or who has disability, can be pleased to get to a classroom, or instead can be disadvantaged by it.

On line and traditional, Dual school must be a potential gift in many ways

Since invention of technology, (or even Open University) it's time to forget the centuries old idea that teaching must be what gets done to children or teenagers in a year group, in a building, in certain hours and certain term times, with everyone expected to be talked at, and to learn at the same pace

Err that was abandoned decades ago.

What a bizarre idea that schools still think education is ‘done to’ kids or achieved by talking at them.

Honestly I think that idea was gone by the 70’s.

"Looks like you're already there -plenty of time to post on MN on a school day."

Maybe you have never heard of part-time/job share working.

Or someone, say like echt, living in another hemisphere.

I’m very part time in case anyone wants to know how I can post on the Internet. There’s this space between full time and totally leaving called managing to get a part time contract

Since invention of technology

Can I jump in to your speech to say that 50% of children at my school have no access to an adequate devices and/or internet. So far we’ve had precisely none of the governments promised ones also.

(or even Open University)

Irrelevant

it's time to forget the centuries old idea that teaching must be what gets done to children or teenagers in a year group

What a totally bizarre idea. I don’t “do teaching to children”.
,

in a building, in certain hours and certain term times, with everyone expected to be talked at, and to learn at the same pace

Why? Why do you think it’s a bad idea to gather children together to learn?

Again - I don’t talk at or expect everyone to learn at the same pace. I spend a long time crafting my lessons to make them as accessible as I can to everyone.

There's a wealth of potential labour force for extra teaching, and even one to one tutoring, and some of it would be gladly offered free, and always has been

Any evidence for this?

Then there's no problem about summer school catch up, opening later in the day, Saturday morning schooling. All those people are out there and raring to go.

They would need no training, supervision, record -keeping, etc.