Why does the NEU say that teachers should not be expected to mark work during the pandemic?

[Thenagainmaybenot]

The national education union says that:
'Worksheets and textbook pages for maths and English can work if they are already used in school and all children have them at home. However, teachers cannot be expected to mark work. Schools should not be setting SATs tests or mocks at this time.'

Why shouldn't teachers be expected to mark work? Fair enough they shouldn't be marking as much as they do normally, but (say) 1-2 maths and english tasks per week to be marked is surely reasonable?

@Qasd

I think the lack of marking or feedback has been the biggest failure in home schooling for us, since I don’t know what he is supposed to be doing then I cannot tell if he is doing it right which means all of there random “ideas” for home learning are useless really..I mean I get him to write a newspaper article but it’s not submitted to anyone I can say it wouldn’t really belong in the times or the guardian but then he is nine so it isn’t supposed to be that good right? But how good is it supposed to be for that age group? What should I look to concentrate on to make it better?

..and yes I know that is now called “being a parent” the constant get out clause for the reason teachers do not need to teach in a pandemic but actually my lack of knowledge of how to teach with no feedback from anyone with a teaching qualification makes most home learning next to useless. It also means that an average kid from a non disadvantaged background has fallen behind The catch up plan will need to go well beyond just the vulnerable.

What did your child’s school suggest when you raised this with them?

That they didn’t have time to provide feedback and teachers are too busy.

The problem is I think teaching is something that the school should maintain responsibility he is after all on the school roll. You will no doubt explain why teaching is something parents should be doing but that stance does make me question why we pay for a state education system in this country if it’s job is not to educate children, pandemic or no pandemic.

“Today 09:23 Howaboutanewname
Tell me, OP, how exactly you would go about marking a photo when your school marking policy requires any number of different coloured pens and highlighters to provide targeted feedback?”

“echo
Teachers in many schools are obliged to use the "right" coloured pens.”

No, you are totally right, no one said that at all

It’s very impressive that all teachers have managed to be working full time from home without computers! Almost unbelievable in fact

We're having daily, was Oak Academy, now moved to White Rose. English, Maths, class challenge, maths challenge and word of the day for Y3 plus a project for the week. All getting marked and feedback, sometimes it's just.👍 but if it's 10/10 what more can be said! However, if full feedback is needed, they are encouraged to go back over the work and redo and resubmit. The class challenge is only getting a max of 10 children completing so assuming 60% of class are doing nothing. All being done by Google classroom. Y4 just getting 1 English 1 math a day, but still marked with feedback. We have 1 laptop between them so 2 hours each a day plus TT rockstars or bug club if we can get it working on the tablet, it's very temperamental! Compared to other schools in the area we are getting a much greater service. However there's been no contact from the school on a pastoral level. I would have thought we might have got a "are you OK?" phone call, assuming cause we are doing the work, they're assuming everything OK!

"And given that all schools were given access to ms teams and google classrooms, and everyone has email accounts, and there are many other free ways to send information electronically, there is no excuse."

I don't have a computer at home ceevee.

Another colleague was sharing one laptop with her dh, also working from home, and her DS who was writing his final year dissertation.

Another colleague has no WiFi in her remote farmhouse.

We rang our kids, visited the homes of vulnerable children, delivered food parcels, worked in the local Hub on a rota and did what we could online (I used my phone to respond to emails from parents) but setting work electronically, and marking it, was difficult

You know that a lot of teachers have also been working in schools? Our school has been making visors, providing community food boxes, creating paper packs of work and then getting them out to our students generally trying to support our families as best we can and support those children in school. I’m sure there might be exceptions but everyone of my friends that works from home in the commercial world is provided with the technology they need. Our laptops have generally gone to students who need them most. Other teachers can set online work for other classes eg we split up the year groups in some departments so one or two teachers set the work for Y7 etc. Depends on size of departments and who was working in school or supporting families in the community and who was working from home. I can set work for a very large number of students in one go. I can provide them with the answers to check their work. As a school we’ve done our best to share the workload depending on everyone’s situation.

I really don’t understand how you are so spectacularly missing the point about the coloured pens. Many schools have marking policies that require different colour pens depending on who is marking or the type of marking. This isn’t unusual. PPs were pointing out it wasn’t possible to follow a marking policy that requires this and that feedback could be more effectively provided in other ways. This was in response to other posters saying it was so simple to just email it, mark it and send it back. I’d still be interested to see where ANY teacher has said we aren’t prepared to provide feedback due to coloured pens. Clearly when you go back and read the quotes above in context of the posts before and after it is clear.

I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse tbh.

"You will no doubt explain why teaching is something parents should be doing but that stance does make me question why we pay for a state education system in this country if it’s job is not to educate children, pandemic or no pandemic."

And the role of a dentist is to provide dentistry, and the role of a refuse collector is to empty our bins, and the role of a taxi driver is to drive you to your destination, and I could go on.

You can stamp your foot as much as you like but many industries and sectors have been unable to offer their usual service during the pandemic, and education is one of those. Most schools are doing the best they can with the staff and resources at their disposal.

Bit lost on your argument to be honest my bins have still be collected and I can still get a taxi, I have been able to go to the supermarket throughout. And my gp surgery didn’t go “oh there is a pandemic on so we have decided everyone can instantly become a fully trained doctor just look in the bbc website they will have some tips” They offered phone and video consultations throughout. Even the dentist doesn’t suggest we “do it ourselves” thank goodness really I imagine the results would be a disaster! They offer emergency treat emend at the moment but not nothing.

Obviously you do not think teachers who are paid to teach should teach and neither does my child’s school. But thankfully no the majority of our public servants did not wash their hands of their profession when the epidemic hit!

You will no doubt explain why teaching is something parents should be doing but that stance does make me question why we pay for a state education system in this country if it’s job is not to educate children, pandemic or no pandemic.

You do like to anticipate the response don't you, Qasd? No-one has suggested that parents teach, and indeed, no sensible person would equate what's done online as teaching to teaching in its usual sense. And no, the parent is not a teacher. This has never been suggested; their role is provide the circumstances in which what is offered by the school can best be done.

Obviously you do not think teachers who are paid to teach should teach and neither does my child’s school

There you go again, telling someone what they think. Are you a mindreader? See above, for what schools are able to do.

If your child's school is not forthcoming, and I'd love to know what you actually said them, go to the head>governors.

It’s very impressive that all teachers have managed to be working full time from home without computers! Almost unbelievable in fact

Ceevee the vast majority of teachers, where they have a computer at home, are paying out of their pockets to educate other people's children. Parents can count themselves lucky they do this. They don't have to you know.

It was the head I emailed. I asked for an opportunity for work to be submitted for marking to find out if we were on the right track and was told no they couldn’t do this as teachers were too busy.

Given the original topic of the thread the experience of not getting feedback and the impact it has on education was relevant to share.

I’m not being obtuse. I, like many other parents including on this thread, am incredibly frustrated with the whole situation. It’s clear there are a lot of teachers going above and beyond. However it’s also clear that there are many that are not, would rather give lots of reasons why something can’t be done, and provide myriad problems rather than solutions.

I do not count myself lucky for my children receiving some sort of education. It is their right and it is paid for for. The significant amount of tax that I have paid. And by the way I, like many others in the commercial sector, have taken a 25% pay cut to ensure our company has a chance of staying in business, however it’s highly likely there will be a lot of redundancies regardless. But we will continue to throw everything at it, you tend to when your livelihood is on the line.

Anyway, over and out. Rather like my conversations with our headteacher, we are at such extremes, there is no point in engaging any further,

@echt - I don't know why you always crop up on these threads accusing parents of teacher bashing and posting your flower emojis. Is your daughter's education being adversely affected by her school's refusal to engage with online teaching and mark work. Mine is.

I don't have a computer at home. Another colleague was sharing one laptop with her dh, also working from home, and her DS who was writing his final year dissertation. Another colleague has no WiFi in her remote farmhouse

Go into school and use the computers there.

@ceeveebee. I don’t think I’m the one that should be embarrassed. Seriously, the right colour pens??

Fuck me, why do we bother when this is the response? I shall explain in detail.

I teach MFL. The expectation is that I produce students at the end of 5 and 7 years who are capable of passing an exam. They are trained from year 7 to work with our feedback and marking policy to improve their work and also, critically, to support them in being able to self-correct when reading back their work. Part of that involves colour-coding errors - green = verb error, yellow = gender/number error etc. Whilst marking, I make a note of the more ridiculous mistakes as well as common errors and my next lesson will look at these as a group before asking students to go away, read the feedback, correct their work by rewriting it. Colour is therefore an important part of what we do and how we do it.

My normal marking of a 150 word piece of writing is about 7 minutes. That includes highlighting, comments, how to improve, reference to any glaring errors and where to seek out an explanation and a grade. It takes me a further 3 minutes or so to mark the corrected work. So at least 10 minutes a student. 32 in a class - 320 minutes per class. I am part time so 4 classes at the moment with exam classes gone. That’s over 1000 minutes to mark under normal circumstances. Only it’s not normal. I have to use a computer to correct, change colours in text and in some cases when I get a photo of written work, rewrite their text and then do the actual marking. I would say that’s 15 minutes minimum per student.

15 x 32 = 480 minutes, x 4 classes = 1920 minutes, so.....32 hours? Granted, we don’t do this every week and students in years 7 and 8 have a lower word count. But you get the idea. It takes a lot of time. I also have children at home and I am teaching a full timetable online, planning and marking. I have a disabled child who is vulnerable to this virus and a shielding parent to care for as well. I’m also single so everything at home is on me.

So no, I am not embarrassed about doing my job properly and the time it takes to do that. Neither am I embarrassed about marking less often because free lessons etc are spent trying to home school my own kids rather than marking as I normally would when in school. Perhaps think before you ridicule something you have absolutely fuck all understanding of, eh? People like you are forcing the good ones amongst us out of the profession. One more week to go for me and I’m free of this shit.

I've given feedback to any work I've had sent in (hardly any).

But we do whole class marking now anyway, so it wouldn't be relevant for me to go through every photo with a pink pen or something. We look at all work, I take notes onto the sheet I'll attach, then feedback/fill gaps/go over again/provide same day intervention for the stuff that needs re-addressing.

Like this:

i.pinimg.com/originals/71/14/9d/71149dbc06eeff29e6869e6b6c3fea07.jpg

My sons school has used something called seesaw. The work is uploaded and the teacher and parent can send messages back and forth. We have done it every week until school decided not to bother anymore about 3 weeks ago. Please dont tell me that the reason that every single piece of work he has done for the last three months, has gone completely unacknowledged, is because his teacher can't write on it in the right colour pens. To give that as a reason to not mark work just completely illustrates why parents get so frustrated on these threads. And no discussion can be had without 'goady' and biscuits being thrown about.
There are some amazing teachers who have really adapted, innovated and really pulled their plod out over the last few months. Just like millions of people working in the commercial sector around the country have had to adapt, innovate and pull their plod out to get through it. Then there are those that cant mark work or provide feedback because they cant do it in the right colours.
Then to top it all the head sends a letter out saying the teachers have had a well earned break.
Im out. I cant read this any more.

Im wondering this have a year 10 and all work is set ans completed online but no marking or feedback seems to be taking place , my ds is doing the work but to what quality we have no idea

echt - I don't know why you always crop up on these threads accusing parents of teacher bashing and posting your flower emojis

I call it when I see it. And yes, I said this thread was posted by GF because they could have supplied links to get the discussion going, but oh no. Had to be, er, encouraged.

They're not my flower emojis, but have one any way

Who made you the MN police?

Is your daughter's education being adversely affected by her school's refusal to engage with online teaching and mark work. Mine is

Not sure what your point is. If this was the case, it wouldn't alter the facts as they are for so many teachers/schools.

Are you really saying you have received nothing from your daughter's school?

We have done it every week until school decided not to bother anymore about 3 weeks ago

So what have you done about it?

We have done it every week until school decided not to bother anymore about 3 weeks ago

Have you asked why?

Looking at the timing I'd expect this is because the teachers are now in school teaching full time with their bubbles. It's almost like no one at the DfE worked out that we can't teach bubbles of only 15 with no extra teachers.

No staff at our school are provided with a laptop so any work from home had to be done on a personal device. We were also banned from the school building unless in supervising key worker students because of infection control, therefore using the computers there was not possible.

To give that as a reason to not mark work just completely illustrates why parents get so frustrated on these threads.

No one has given this as a reason. RTFT properly.

What have I done about it? This is my point exactly. Where is the ownership and accountability from the school, whose are responsible to provide him with an education?
What have you done about it?' is a complete cop out, and a response I see so often on here.
I shouldnt be put in a position where I have to do anything about it.
I have been sent 1 worksheet of utter drivel to do 'if we want to.'
Ive given up and DP and I are making our own stuff up 1 hr each a day. We are not teachers and dont know whats on the curriculum so we are just doing engaging, interesting things.
Sorry if ive offended any genuinely hard working teachers out there, but I am so frustrated with people defending the indefensible. The not marking work because of the coloured pen thing has sent me over the edge.

What have I done about it? This is my point exactly. Where is the ownership and accountability from the school, whose are responsible to provide him with an education

It's a perfectly reasonable question. One I ask every time a parent posts about school doing nothing/not enough. To do nothing for weeks on end but come on here to complain is a bit rich. The relationship with the school is a contract (though not a legal one) so yes, you are always in the position where you might have to do something about it.

Would you do nothing if your child was bullied at school and/or your were dissatisfied with the conduct of the school's actions because you shouldn't be in that position?

There might be any number of reasons for what's happening at the school and you can always contact the HT or governors if you are not satisfied.

No-one has defended the indefensible, they've pointed out facts, offered interpretations of situations, etc.

The not marking work because of the coloured pen thing has sent me over the edge

Ha! try being the teacher who has to do the fuckwitted thing. I can assure you it was not dreamt up by teachers. Oh, and no-one has offered this as a reason for not marking.

"Go into school and use the computers there."

My apologies. I had naturally assumed that you were complaining about the period where most school buildings were closed and relocated to community Hubs.

Of course, I now go into school every day as usual but I am teaching a bubble and so that is the reason why the provision for non-returning year groups might be impaired somewhat.

"Bit lost on your argument to be honest my bins have still be collected and I can still get a taxi, I have been able to go to the supermarket throughout. And my gp surgery didn’t go “oh there is a pandemic on so we have decided everyone can instantly become a fully trained doctor just look in the bbc website they will have some tips”

Around here our bin collection was reduced and skips closed, you had to drive an hour to the emergency dentist, taxis weren't operating as they couldn't maintain 2m distance, the doctor offered emergency telephone consultations only. Most people seemed to accept that we were in unusual times, and that services were impaired. It is only when it comes to education that people are aghast that changes were made.

UNESCO report that 144 countries worldwide closed schools completely, to everyone. I do wonder whether we should have done that too. Keeping them open for keyworker and vulnerable children, and now some year groups, did mean that some schools were stretched very thinly. Maybe a better homelearning experience could have been provided if they had all just closed. Or maybe most parents in rl are happily accepting of whatever homelearning has been provided, in the knowledge that keyworker and vulnerable children have been prioritised.