Are the unions going to kick off about back to school in September?

[Flippetydip]

Is there going to be a big hoo ha from the unions about the "everyone back to school at full capacity" announcement from the PM today?

Any teachers on here care to give a view?

I think it is completely reasonable to say 'the DfE should be doing better in terms of managing schools' re-opening'.

I think it is even more reasonable to say 'the prime Minister and his inner circle should be working with the DfE to do better in terms of managing schools' re-opening.'

It is not reasonable to blame unions or head teachers for pointing out the issues with DfE and government guidelines.

If there are any schools not re-opening PURELY due to union action, or because re-opening is resisted by particular heads in the absence of public health direction, then it is reasonable to blame the union or head in that specific case

I think it is unreasonable to blame individual teachers for schools not re-opening.

@keepwashingthosehands - the bit I thought was not a fair representation (imo) was that there was no sensible debate to be had.

I have been on threads where there has been sensible debate and where teachers have responded to thought-out suggestions. But I can understand the weariness from teachers being expected to be happy about a situation in which they either didn't have enough spunk and can-do-ness... one thread I read said something along the lines of "we hardly shut any schools in the blitz so whats wrong with teachers today" or to accept that their working conditions are not worth consideration because 'children don't get CV19' .... and I can understand the weariness of parents who (like many teachers) are having to juggle in a way we've never experienced.

So, I disagree with you that there is no sensible debate to be had, but I do think that sensible debate is harder to be had on a thread which imo is deliberately goady and inflammatory which I think this one is, as teachers read it and think 'not again, why us' and GF's pile on... (for the record M'lord am not suggesting you are a GF!)

@cantkeepawayforever

"No rotas, either daily or weekly"

This is why we can't have everyone back. It's not our doing - or the unions. It's the government.

"It is just that parents want full time opening for every child as normal, and that isn't compatible with the protective measures UNLESS all schools double their staff and their number of classrooms."

This.
And Gavin Williamson isn't about to pay for any of that to happen.

I would like to see Hav and his cronies publish the following scenarios:

Virus gone
Virus diminishing
Virus increasing
Virus increasing fast.

And for each of those a clear direction of expectations and proposals.

We’ve done this at my school. A procedure in place for every eventuality.

Why aren’t the government doing this? And it is clear and transparent?

Well l know why, but l can only wish...

And the really stupid thing in all this arguing is that where schools have opened PARENTS aren’t sending their kids in.

It might seem on threads like these that all parents are desperate to send their kids back full time no social distancing, but a large proportion of them aren’t willing to send them in with social distancing in place so god knows how many will be keeping kids home in September.

If the government announces the reintroduction of fines for non-attendance I fully expect outraged threads about safety from parents.

Can someone explain to me why previous posters have said that teachers and other school staff aren’t allowed to wear PPE? They do at my DC’s school when they are in close contact with pupils, such as taking temperatures in the morning and end of the day, providing first aid or if they need to get close to a child to provide teaching support.
They also wear masks when walking around campus, as do the children.

People have said it because it is the case in their schools. It's another example of the disparity in interpretation of government "guidance."

@Bunsygirl
DfE guidance:
"Wearing a face covering or face mask in schools or other education settings is not recommended. Face coverings may be beneficial for short periods indoors where there is a risk of close social contact with people you do not usually meet and where social distancing and other measures cannot be maintained, for example on public transport or in some shops. This does not apply to schools or other education settings. Schools and other education or childcare settings should therefore not require staff, children and learners to wear face coverings.Changing habits, cleaning and hygiene are effective measures in controlling the spread of the virus. Face coverings (or any form of medical mask unless instructed to be used for specific clinical reasons) should not be worn in any circumstance by those who may not be able to handle them as directed (for example, young children, or those with special educational needs or disabilities) as it may inadvertently increase the risk of transmission."

@FerventFox can we just put your point in perspective, 12 outbreaks (2 or more people test positive) out of how many schools in the country? Relatively low % I assume. At no point has the government said the virus is extinct or going to be extinct any time soon, it's now about learning to live along side the virus as best we can. We can not put all our lives on hold indefinitely. Lock down was never about stopping the virus.
Large groups of people have always been breeding ground for passing on germs this isnt something new some large group environments are avoidable and some large group environments (like schools) are a necessity

But I assume you meant to add uhoh that in those circumstances where large groups are a necessity a specific risk assessment would be considered and appropriate mitigation put in place? otherwise it reads like - teachers be fucked?

@CallmeAngelina Maybe those schools and the people running them should use their common sense. I have a family member who is a teacher. The bloody idiot held a leavers assembly for his year 11 on the last day before schools closed. He said it was fine because it “wasn’t again the rules”. Shame he couldn’t engage his brain and have a long, hard think about the risks involved. Assemblies were banned at my DC’s school for weeks before the school closed.

The day will come when some may choose to forget what they write on these threads.

#shameonyou

Seeing how they've behaved so far they probably will kick up a fuss. God knows why though. Kids are significant spreaders. Teachers can choose to wear ppe if they want to. And they should just get on with things and forget social distancing small children.

@myrtle haven't teachers always been at risk from catching all types of viruses and passing them on? Many strains of different virus have the potential to cause serious illness or even worse a tiny percentage of death.
Every single thing we do Carries some form of risk of potential death or serious harm to ourselves or others. A school never has been and never will be a virus free environment for any type of virus there is. Yes we can make schools "safer" but they'll never ever be 100% safe.

Whilst the government have put precautions in place to make workplaces safer for employees across the country, school staff should be afforded the same consideration.

@noblegiraffe Over 90% are back at my DC’s school.

@Ashard20 Thank you. That doesn’t ban staff from wearing masks. It states that the school can’t make it a requirement.

I didn't say @uhoh2020 that schools should be 100% safe - I think they should be afforded the same safety considerations as others.

As to your point about risk always being present in schools - I would point to the governments own language about returning pupils to schools from just a couple of weeks ago...

Our assessment, based on the latest scientific and medical advice, is that we need to continue to control the numbers attending school to reduce the risk of increasing transmission. Therefore, schools are able to have a quarter of the year 10 and year 12 cohort (for schools with sixth forms) in school at any one time

Am not sure that the R number has reducing so significantly across the country that the risk of community transmission has been removed. Indeed Whitty and Vallance's input into today's presser was very cautious and clear that the advisers advise but ministers decide. So if the school setting was deemed a risk a couple of weeks ago it still remains a risk. The question is how is government intending to mitigate that risk?

@BunsyGirl because it says no PPE in the guidance my head teacher has banned all masks and visors. We are not allowed them even if we’ve source and pay for them ourselves. Children at my school are not allowed to wear masks either.

Then, Bunsy you are more likely to be in a very affluent area.

In schools serving the most disadvantaged communities that have re-opened, three-quarters of teachers said that only 1-in-3 (or fewer) have returned to school.

I find it crazy re no PPE. I did write to MP, about all I could do. So frustrating.

I’ve read through this thread and many like it and they sadden me greatly.

I have children in the current year 10 & 12. My year 12 had realistic aspirations to go to a good university. My year 10 to obtain high gcse grades and study the A levels of their choice. There must be many thousands of others like them.

All I see is arguing and point scoring everywhere- the government, unions, media, here - all sides of the debate.

My children’s generation are going to spend most of their working lives paying off the debt the country has incurred. That’s fine but the country is not providing them with the opportunity to gain an education to have a future. If anyone is being thrown under a bus it is the current year 12’s (and to a lesser extent year 10’s). They have had their future ripped from them and no one seems to care but hooray we’ve got a load of 4 year olds back in school because who would want their education disrupted.

I would really like to hear what teachers feel about year 12’s. This is not a goady question but I feel desperate about my child’s future (As do tgey) and would genuinely like to know what teachers think.I

@Uhoh2020 Couldn't you say the same for hospital staff? Careworkers? Supermarket staff? Haven't they always been exposed to a range of viruses? Shall we take all the PPE, screens at tills and protective measure away from them because they should just accept that their jobs mean they will be exposed to viruses?

I would really like to hear what teachers feel about year 12’s

I’ve been working really hard to teach them remotely (not live lessons) and they’ve responded really well and their assessments are pretty good.

The ones I phone every week seem ok. Want to be back at school but pootling along in general.