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So apparently all the state schools could have had interactive lessons

206 replies

chopc · 19/06/2020 19:14

As per GW today all were given access to a Microsoft Teams/ Google classrooms and could have had interactive teaching like the private schools. Not sure if he mentioned anything about the safeguarding concerns of zoom which miraculously have been overcome recently ...........just sayin

Did some teachers say they have been instructed by their SLT not to give interactive lessons or mark homework etc?

Sorry I know you must be bored of these threads but couldn't help myself

OP posts:
Whathewhatnow · 26/06/2020 21:08

For what legitimate reason can it possibly have taken 12 weeks to get MS teams installed?? That is absolutely rubbish.

Socialdistancegintonic · 26/06/2020 21:17

I don’t understand the ‘don’t give live lessons’ argument at all. So don’t give live lessons - just because some don’t have computers - therefore all kids have no live lessons?!

Just send homework each week? Which is what my kids got. Set work.

There could have been all kinds of ways teachers could have done a mix of live lessons, team work, interactive question and answer, projects to do with the media and COVID-19 related...

You know... like many of the private schools did. I’d have loved my kids to have got what the private schools were offering. Neither of them do well with self motivation, they have none, they needed loads more input from the teacher. They didn’t get it.

fortmums · 26/06/2020 22:12

Very embarrassing situation in England. Supposedly a G7 country. Many of the best secondary schools in the world. All over the country people spend eons of time on the internet, teens hanging off their phones. But,Oh no, state secondaries cannot possibly do live lessons, mate.

Well, check out how to do it www.wycombeabbey.com/download/10222/
No, it’s not in China or US, it’s here on this same island and is just one example of how 1000s of teachers taught live during covid.

Splattherat · 26/06/2020 22:21

DD’s school current yr10’s school finally set up Virtual lessons on teams only 2 weeks ago she has only had 3 virtual lessons on this platform so far which were all badly attended. She went back to school for Only the first time this week (she gets to half a day per week) and thats it until September shocking.

MoreW1ne · 26/06/2020 23:00

I'd have loved my kids to get what the private schools were offering.

Yea no shit. Wouldn't we all. Here's an idea if you want what the private schools are giving...pay for it.

echt · 26/06/2020 23:26

So don’t give live lessons - just because some don’t have computers - therefore all kids have no live lessons?!

Yes. My understanding is it's about equality of provision. For the same reason KW children are not given different work for those at home.

And no, this not a teacher decision.

averysuitablegirl · 27/06/2020 00:02

fortmums what I do think is embarrassing as a G7 country is why over 90% of our children are taught in schools that are falling down, with budget cuts every year to the extent that they end up asking parents to donate toilet roll, with an outdated, overly centralised curriculum that fails to meet the needs of the modern work, are assessed and data-ised within a inch of their lives, and taught by a profession who have been so undermined and overworked that there's a major recruitment and retention crisis.

And the privileged few get the sort of provision that you link to.

That's what embarrassed me tbh.

AnneWeber · 27/06/2020 00:57

Agree Avery. I assume none of the people complaining vote for tory funding cuts, otherwise they only have themselves to blame.

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 27/06/2020 01:01

No I never said my SLT said not to give interactive lessons or mark work. SLT said no to Zoom due to safeguarding concerns. SLT said yes to recording lessons. Not completing any assessment for learning is an absolute no-no (not just my current school but all for a number of other secondaries where I have taught)

From day 1 of lockdown we have delivered live interactive lessons via Teams and marked all work submitted to Teams.

We have just finished exam week. It is all done via Teams and all feedback is given via Teams. And next week we have a Year 10 parents meeting all being done via Teams.

Rainuntilseptember · 27/06/2020 01:01

Well I couldn't have done it as I don't have decent enough ICT, and my school couldn't provide me with any.
I could do setting/marking, but not live.

echt · 27/06/2020 03:48

Well I couldn't have done it as I don't have decent enough ICT, and my school couldn't provide me with any

Every parent who has an issue with the work provided by teachers on lockdown from their homes need to remember that the vast majority of teachers fund their own IT and broadband. To spell it out, they didn't have to raise a hand, could have said nah, not doing it.

duffeldaisy · 27/06/2020 07:41

Technology quite urgently needs to be classed as an essential bit of infrastructure.

I remember people at the last election Pooh-poohing free Broadband for all, but this shows how important it is.
The government should have funded laptops, broadband access and bills for all children who needed it.

Lessons don’t have to be live - teachers are doing so much already - but things like Oak Academy have been fantastic, along with other resources. All children should be able to access that.

If they’re living somewhere unsuitable for learning, then those children could be allowed to go to a school or even a study centre created from a community building that’s unused with a few staff if the school has no room.

Walkaround · 27/06/2020 09:50

Well, my experience of state primary school parents is that quite a significant proportion of them do NOT appreciate live lessons or interactive lessons, because they, eg, only have one laptop for 3 children plus the parent to work from home on, so need to take it in turns, not all sit in front of it at once; or just one smartphone between them and they are more invested in working out how to get their free school meal vouchers to work, anyway etc, etc. Plenty also claim technological idiocy and an inability to work out how to use Google Classroom, or a strong preference to use pencils and paper (but without access to printers or their own paper...) and a definite preference not to have lessons at set times, because they do not fit in with working patterns and supervision capacity. I think a lot of posters on here are just showing a) how well off and middle class they are, b) that they have small families, and c) that they are generalising about state v private provision to a ridiculous degree anyway. Some schools have done well in this and others have been poor with their provision. It’s fair to say, though, that it’s very time consuming catering for classes of 30 where some need work posting to them, some want interactivity and live lessons, some can just about cope with emails, and others don’t want to engage at all.

commentatorz · 27/06/2020 10:19

Honestly, my little boy's karate teacher has put in a far better offering for online teaching and support than his school... it's completely depressing

echt · 27/06/2020 10:43

So what have you done about it, commentatorz?

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 27/06/2020 10:55

Many teachers do not get school laptops and certainly do not get the funds being given to some for wfh - no extra money for desks/chairs/fancy headsets / broadband upgrades etc.

Teachers have to pay for that themselves. So I purchased a document camera so I can show students parts of textbooks and articles and charts etc. I have purchased a headset so that I can do pp voiceovers and so I limit my disturbance to others in the house. And I upgraded my computer. So far I have spent about £1000.

WombatChocolate · 27/06/2020 11:01

Clearly there have been barriers to live or recorded lessons. However, there are solutions to most, if not all barriers. Some schools have overcome these barriers at differing speeds, but some don’t even seem to be starting to overcome them.

Can I ask, is the policy that unless everyone can access something, no-one can have it? It lack of IT or internet for some children meaning schools choose not to do recorded or live lessons?

Teacher IT issues - it is shocking that teachers aren’t provided with laptops and software in normal times. I can see that getting stuff to all teachers is difficult now. That said, honestly are there really more than a handful of teachers who don’t have a computer/laptop at home and internet access? Teachers are not disadvantaged groups so although they might be using their own equipment, surely they have actually got it. Are they refusing to use it? Do schools feel they can’t ask them to use it?

I know if a small local private school where a friend teaches. It’s not a big name and doesn’t have high fees and teachers earn less than state teachers. They aren’t given laptops. When lockdown happened, they were told to deliver 1 live lesson per class, per week and record it and put it online, plus provide work for other lesson. They were told to take in 1 piece of work per subject per week and provide feedback - marked work, verbal etc. They did 1 live lesson and not all in recognition of shared IT in families and it was fine if children didn’t attend it live but watched later. But the majority are watching live and having interaction with teacher. Each child gets feedback for each subject per week. Some students don’t have enough laptops in there house for 1 per person and share with parent or sibling. It works.

So my Q is, why is this different to the state school? The teachers don’t have superior tech Or even anything provided by school, the children aren’t all rolling in tech.....but somehow a good balance between live and set work with lots of feedback is happening. Of course these teachers also have children T home .....but they don’t say that means they can’t deliver. Like other key workers, they work round it with partners or send their children to key worker provision at their own schools. They didn’t know how to use Zoom or Teams before, like most teachers.....but have learned how to do it. They safeguard by not having children on screen/knitting backgrounds and using settings to control what children can do online. All of these things were quickly learned.

So I totally accept there were and are barriers....but the Q is about overcoming them. Some schools do seem determined to overcome them....and some don’t. Is the fee paying parents who might withdraw their child, somehow a motive that helps teachers and schools overcome barriers, but for some state schools the motivation just isn’t strong enough.

Schools face differing circumstances. But even in schools with significant no’s of disadvantaged children and barriers, provision has wildly differed. The Q is why some have managed more feedback, to look at more work and to engage with children more than others, even when the schools have similar cohorts of children and similar issues of staff equipment, staff having caring responsibilities etc.

echt · 27/06/2020 11:11

Many teachers do not get school laptops and certainly do not get the funds being given to some for wfh - no extra money for desks/chairs/fancy headsets / broadband upgrades etc. Teachers have to pay for that themselves. So I purchased a document camera so I can show students parts of textbooks and articles and charts etc. I have purchased a headset so that I can do pp voiceovers and so I limit my disturbance to others in the house. And I upgraded my computer. So far I have spent about £1000

This.

Essential reading for all complaining parents.

Everything your child is getting outside of what the school provides comes out of a teacher's pocket, i.e. they take food out of their own/family's mouths to teach your child.

So think on, as my dear dead dad would say.

echt · 27/06/2020 11:12

That said, honestly are there really more than a handful of teachers who don’t have a computer/laptop at home and internet access? Teachers are not disadvantaged groups so although they might be using their own equipment, surely they have actually got it. Are they refusing to use it? Do schools feel they can’t ask them to use it?

School should, provide, not the teachers. Ever.

Italiandreams · 27/06/2020 11:22

It’s about finding a method of teaching that works for the most amount of children in the class. Say 10/30 could be in a live lesson. The teacher still has to provide learning for the other 20. 12 of them have a good internet service so could have recorded lessons. 8 need packs. How can the teacher do all 3 realistically? They need to find the best way to reach as many children as possible, that may look different in different settings.

brakethree · 27/06/2020 11:43

Both my children have had 'full' online school since day 1. However both are at private school, it really isn't fair to compare the provision to state schools imo, we pay thousands for their education and I expected on-line school to be provided.

That said for me it isn't just on-line school, many of the lessons havent been fully on-line, it's been about the school day being structured - students being expected to register for the day, attend form time, do work set during their normal lesson times. If they don't register or do their work we are notified. It has been the structure and expectation that has been important for us.

Walkaround · 27/06/2020 11:54

WombatChocolate - in addition to live lessons/recorded lessons having to being in addition to work that can be accessed without these, because not all families can access them, don’t forget the amount of time staff have to spend on increasing numbers of families who require social services involvement. Schools no longer exist just for teaching, they are expected to pick up on and deal with all sorts of complex and extremely time consuming issues, even in lockdown, which is why Government is so keen to get them open again. As for the small private school you know of - there is a reason why staff are willing to work there for less pay than in the state sector... and as it isn’t the money, it’s likely to do with an easier life, so little point comparing chalk and cheese.

brakethree · 27/06/2020 12:06

If schools are picking up and dealing with lots of issues outside of education then they are choosing to do this. They should be pushing it back to the council, they're are plenty working in councils that wouldn't have been doing much during the past weeks, many of whom would not have been furloughed. Schools are very quick to say 'we can't....deliver on-line lessons, do this, do that' however on the other hand do stuff that isn't actually what they should be doing.

commentatorz · 27/06/2020 12:52

@echt I did discuss with my cousin who is also a teacher, but she advised me not to bring it up with the school. She said that they would likely not do anything about it but would bear a grudge- and would likely cause issues for my boy when school resumes.

WombatChocolate · 27/06/2020 13:17

I fully agree that teachers shouldn’t be funding their own equipment......in usual times or now. But really, how many teachers actually didn’t have a computer of some sort at home or internet access? They shouldn’t have had to use their own, but given they had it, wouldn’t they use it?

Even for families with only a mobile phone for internet access, being able to see their teacher speaking to them, whether live or later because the lesson was recorded is valuable. How many in reality wouldn’t be able to access the recording at some point on some device? And so for me, it should be done.i cannot see a barrier so big as to prevent that. Some schools have provided this, plus posted hard copies of work to those needing it. They have also dealt with the food vouchers and made contact with home. In order to do this they worked 8 hour days and fitted childcare around it/sent their children to key worker school.

In lots of schools the expectation was to provide some video or live lessons for the proportion who could access it and alternatives for those who couldn’t. In a full working day there was time for both. Those who could access stuff with their teacher weren’t denied it because some couldn’t or wouldn’t.

In all schools some children and families engaged and some didn’t. There is only so much that can be done about this but again big variance. Some report their children doing nothing for a month and zero follow-up. Some schools have followed up and still find little engagement .....well, there’s only so much you can do for those families. But for many, follow-up does deliver some results.

There are barriers, but given how hard teachers usually work (and I know it’s often school policy not teacher choice) then why some have overcome barriers and some haven’t, whilst in similar situations (so not comparing private and state) DOES to some degree come down to leadership determination. Even with school and staffing differences accounted for,there has been a vast difference in provision. Live lessons are not the only feature of quality remote learning. Quality remote learning needs SOME level of seeing your own teachers on screen either live or recorded, meaningful work with resources designed for a specific purpose, regular feedback (should sometimes be marked work but other feedbacks fine too) and some level of personal contact by email, phone or whatever too. Then there’s the reporting, contacting parents, dealing with external agencies.....it’s a lot, but lots of schools have done lots in all categories and some far less. A minimum requirement, if there’s a 2nd lockdown would be helpful.....in normal times, school populations etc differ a lot but have minimum requirements. I think we need it now too. Without it, some schools simply set themselves higher standards than others.

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