Every child in every year group will return to school in September, Education Secretary Gavin Williamson has said.

[itswhereitsat]

I didn't catch the briefing but read the above comment in the news. The big question is, did he say whether children returning would be part-time or full time? Or did he just gloss over that bit?

FWIW, I think the government has its head in the sand and is doing what many posters are scolded for ding on here by thinking if it believes the virus will be gone by September enough, it will happen.

I can almost guarantee that for secondary schools, there are no viable plans : they will get heads to sort it all out : possibly just setting v hard to follow guidelines about reaching school (because outside of a school building the virus will exist) and saying 'no assemblies'.

[quote DomDoesWotHeWants]@TrustTheGeneGenie

Can I ask what your qualifications are to make such a sweeping statement?

And your qualifications for thinking I'm wrong?

Daft question.[/quote]
Well considering even the government don't know what will happen im just surprised that you already know for definite?

DS1 is currently Year 10. I would be more than happy for him and DS2 (year 4) to go back to school full time with no social distancing.
And before anyone flames me for not caring about teachers/schools, I’m a TA and have been working the entire time looking after key worker children (who I can guarantee have not stayed 2m apart the entire time)
I’m really concerned that if it’s only the core subjects that are “taught” in Year 11 what’s going to happen to the other subjects? 2 of the subjects DS1 wants to do at A level are option subjects do what happens to those? Do these Year 10 children have to change their whole future aspirations because they have a tiny chance of possibly, maybe catching a virus which for most of them will be a mild illness anyway?

With changing options available to bubble y10/11 I don't think that would work at all with the y11 in September - they will have been studying their chosen options for 1-2 years already, how do you think someone telling them 'I know you chose art and have done all this work but your bubble is doing music so you'll just have to make do and catch up' will go down? I think realistically bubbles can't happen in upper secondary, I'm assuming we'll just be would school.as normal - wash hands more (if that sounds familiar it is because it was the plan at the start of march)

My D.C. get to their secondary on massively overpacked public transport-what on earth is that going to look like?!

They are in multiple different groups for different subjects as well.

DS moves to YR10 in September.

His school is large, with 1100 pupils across yr7-11. He has already started his GCSE work. Bubbles would be impossible - He is top set triple science and second from bottom set Maths (yes he is an anomaly, ASD) 2nd top set in English. How would bubbles work for him? Never mind the options of Geography etc....the other two options he has are very much hands on (photography, woodwork) but I am pragmatic enough to appreciate these may have to be dropped to focus on his main subjects....but for the options of history, geography, languages, they need these if they plan to take them at A level......

Not to mention getting them to school, it's a packed school bus or public transport for most of the kids attending, though some can walk.

I despair - we need to have an understanding of how things might look so we can at least start preparing him.

DH says the only way Secondarys can work and not fail the majority of kids is for them to open as normal, and that this is the only plan the government have, but they wont say that yet until they test the waters and judge public opinion with a reduction of the 2m rule.

In the meantime the uncertainty is causing anxiety for thousands.

Primaries by September will have to bubble in 30ishs. Still no assemblies, extra handwashing, packed lunches in classroom with only those on FSM being provided by school, extra cleaning.

Secondary bubbles don't work because of options so if we still need some level of SD then even at 1m only half the school can be in at once. You would need packed lunches again, one way routes round the school, extra cleaning throughout the day. Then there could be a rota so all kids are in halftime and can have some face to face teaching and pastoral check in. The other half they would need to be doing pre set online work - they are secondary and shouldn't need the childcare aspect every day - the government really needs to be making sure every pupil has access to broadband and a laptop so this can work.
The teacher workload of teaching two lessons concurrently (one online to set and mark) and one face to face will be very difficult so extra funding for TAs or grad students to assist with some tasks (because, teacher shortage) to make it a manageable workload should be forthcoming.
Look, Gav, I solved it for you! Just need extra money for cleaning, more academic support staff and a laptop and internet connection for every secondary age child. You may also need to give teachers a pay rise for teaching two lessons at once.

Well considering even the government don't know what will happen im just surprised that you already know for definite?

I know the science. Social distancing is still the best way to prevent spread of the virus. Surely everyone knows that.

I know there will not be enough teachers to cover all children. Some have retired early, sick of the shit hurled at them by ignorant people on chat forums. Some have health issues which would make it unsafe if social distancing is dropped for the sake of popularity.

It really isn't rocket science.

If you can't see that the government are floundering then you have your eyes tightly shut.

@ohthegoats

It is possible to teach phonics in a bubble of 30.

Next year in my bubble of 30, I'll have children who can't read at all - not even phase 2 phonics words. I have children who are working in mid year 4. I have children who can't speak English. I have a child who runs out of the room all the time (currently budget for support, bu no appropriate applicants), I have a child who licks and bites, I have several children who are in speech and language bases in the mornings. I have no allocated TA at present.

What are the 25 other children doing (some of whom are the runner and the licker/biter), while I'm teaching SATPIN to the other 5? Shudder, sounds awful. Not a fun challenge at all, just awful.

Yeah it's going to be hard but everybody does the best they can. There's no alternative but to do what you can. People throwing their hands up in the air and announcing that certain areas are no longer going to be taught aren't going to make this situation any better. And many schools are single form entry with limited TA provision so they have to teach as a class group and then do additional with those who need it. Some schools are teaching phonics to 30 kids who speak 15 different first languages and limited English.

We're taking about SEPTEMBER. There's no earthly point discussing the ins and outs of what school might look like in 10 weeks time now, look how much has changed in the last 3 weeks.

All you get now is a bunfight about what people hope will happen, some determined that things will be back to normal and others determined that will never be possible.

I don’t think it’s that people are not willing to just get in with it. But what people are saying is it will be managing, and provision will be potentially less good than before due to challenges such as lack of interventions as staff potentially can’t cross bubbles. Challenges of PPA / lunchtimes etc.

I am very happy to get on with it but know it will be hard to provide the level of catch up parents will understandably expect with one adult and 30 children.

It’s managing expectations , which is something the government has done very badly so far.

There's no earthly point discussing the ins and outs of what school might look like in 10 weeks time now, look how much has changed in the last 3 weeks

Heads have to decide now! If there is a possibility they might be expected to open full time in September, they will have to make sure they have enough staff, then they will need to timetable them which is a massive job!

Ah Dom, what would we do without all your positive rays of sunshine, thank you.

We're timetabling assuming full attendance, that time table will be needed at some point during the year anyway, surely? If we can't have all the children they'll be in for part of the timetable.

I’m already planning lessons and sequences of lessons for September. It makes a big difference to me if I’m delivering them in person/remotely/half and half. I can adapt to anything, given notice, but I can’t just sling lessons online and hope for the best, especially for a new cohort whose abilities I don’t know yet.

We're timetabling assuming full attendance, that time table will be needed at some point during the year anyway, surely?

Are you assuming that all vulnerable/shielding staff will be back full time on September 1st?

We can’t reopen to all children. with the staff we have left. We may be unusual but we have a particularly large number shielding which has a huge impact on a small school, and the decision made about them will have a massive impact on what we are able to offer.

*There's no earthly point discussing the ins and outs of what school might look like in 10 weeks time now, look how much has changed in the last 3 weeks
*

Schools have to plan now. There's only 4 weeks left of term. Planning can take weeks, especially in large secondaries.

We are an infants so planning is less complicated but even so, we still need to plan ahead.

At present we have about three different scenarios being planned, all in draft waiting for yet another change.

They have no idea what will happen in September. It's a complete joke

I am no fan of the government but you’re right, no one knows what the situation will be in September. We’ve never done this with this virus before! I am not sure how anyone can plan anything with any certainty at the moment, let alone take a stab in the dark as to what might be possible. Ideally, schools will be open but looking increasingly unlikely to me.

It is possible to teach phonics in a bubble of 30.

To be fair we always teach phonics in a bubble in infants. The scheme we follow recommends it entirely. We were told during the official training that it should be taught as a full class.
We then do additional sessions for those either side which need it in smaller focus groups with their the class teacher of a TA.

We have a lot of shielding staff too. They've been told an announcement is "coming very soon". Yes, if we are to have all children back, they willl need to be back too. So, again, it depends what happens between now and Sept but we have to plan assuming it's back to normal and then adjust, rather than planning for limited school and suddenly having to create full time school. I fully expect the announcement to come in August.

Are you assuming that all vulnerable/shielding staff will be back full time september the 1st?

Surely anyone who is shielding/vulnerable regardless of their job will have to make some decisions at some point with their employers. If people are unable to do their jobs because it will have a detrimental effect on their health they need to step aside for others to step in. And I dont just mean teachers I mean any profession. When children return to school it's no longer feasible to work from home, just the same for carers or front line workers who cant work from home. Are employers meant to leave vacancies open indefinitely for those who aren't able to actually do the jobs that they are employed to do?
It's sad and the government need to financially support the long term shielding/extremely vulnerable but we cant stop the rest of society getting back to some sort of normal because of people needing to shield for goodness knows how long.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Well considering even the government don't know what will happen im just surprised that you already know for definite?

I know the science. Social distancing is still the best way to prevent spread of the virus. Surely everyone knows that.

I know there will not be enough teachers to cover all children. Some have retired early, sick of the shit hurled at them by ignorant people on chat forums. Some have health issues which would make it unsafe if social distancing is dropped for the sake of popularity.

It really isn't rocket science.

If you can't see that the government are floundering then you have your eyes tightly shut.

I can't see they do not know what will happen.

I can see that you think you know what will happen but in reality you're just as in the dark as the rest of us. Just over confident in your own opinion. You're a retired teacher, not a scientist. Your being fed the same "science" through the media as everyone else. It's quite easy to get numbers to match up to what you want them to do, you know.

But where would those replacements one from and how are they suppose to be in place for September?

Decisions need to be made soon as planning takes time. I know we don’t know everything but we need some guidance as to where we are going with things

@HeadSpin5

Ah Dom, what would we do without all your positive rays of sunshine, thank you.

But so much better than the ignorant stupidity so often on these threads, don't you think?

@geniie

I'm being fed the science by a micro biologist researching Covid at their place of work.