Doctor says DS (7) probably had CV in December

[Freetodowhatiwant]

Just that really, fascinating if we could find out. DS, 7, had a cough like I’ve never seen before at Christmas in Spain. I’ve been to hospital about 15 times with both of my children, more often the younger one, when they’ve had croup or a viral wheeze so I’m very used to what these sound like. The cough ds has at Christmas saw him coughing for weeks and weeks but at the peak had him non stop for 5 whole hours without any break. By 2am that morning when nothing was stopping him coughing I went to the chemist to get some steroids as I know this is what we are often given in hospital for croup but I knew there was no croup or viral wheeze, just this constant dry cough. As it was by the time I got back from the chemist he had finally stopped coughing enough to sleep and they next day at the clinic they gave him inhalers which he needed for a good few weeks afterwards.

Anyway I had a call today from his younger sibling’s asthma doctor and although I was pleased to report the 5yo has not had to use an inhaler for months and months I said it was funny as DS had had to have one. She asked for details about this and said it sounded like he had had Covid back in December, especially given we were in spain.

Who knows! Would BA interesting to get him an antibody test but as far as I’m aware they are expensive and not always accurate.

My husband was really ill at the tale end of last year, he had a raging temperature, soaked through a mattress, all of the joints in his hands swelled up, he had to see a doctor he was that bad. I had the worst cough I've ever had in my life it took me weeks to shake it off and just felt generally awful, DD had a cough and some gastric symptoms but shook it off in a couple of days. At the time DH's doctor said there was a 'really weird bug going round'.

Given what we know now about some of the less widely known symptoms of COVID I am certain that we've all had it.

End of December my mum got really ill with a cough that lasted around six weeks. In January both my daughters get ill. Eldest gets a horrendous cough that lasted 6-8 weeks. Both of them were wiped out for three days with High temps. Second week in feb I start with chest pain and breathlessness, dry cough. Horrific sore throat, viral conjunctivitis. I even went to the doctors about it. Was given antibiotics. It lasted about three weeks. My mum is a nurse she had conformed coronavirus four weeks ago. Six months after she suspected having it the first time round. She had been nursing covid positive patients so a high viral load. That would fit in with the theory that antibodies only work efficiently for around six months.

DH is convinced he has had coronavirus now. He had a "bad virus" according to the practice nurse back in February. All symptoms match. We all had conjunctivitis too. But as it wasn't officially here we don't know. All I can say is that we've been feeling not right since then. But we've still been keeping safe in case it was just a bug & not covid. I wish I knew for sure.

There is speculation (and it is only speculation) that covid was around in August in China. If that is true then there doesn't have to be a conspiracy theory involved, it just means that a new virus came along and no one knew what it was for quite a while. While no one knew it was there it was spreading around the world. Lots of people were fine, some weren't, but not enough for doctors to think it was anything but the normal flu and other viruses they see as winter hits.

It's a virus. It spreads unseen until enough cases build up for it to be noticed. That's not at all unusual, that's how viruses work.

I'm not rejecting people's experiences at all, I had similar (but tested negative for antibodies) but why did excess deaths not rise? We didn't see an uptick in deaths until late March. If you look back at the last quarter of last year we actually had fewer deaths than usual (figure 6)

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/quarterlymortalityreports/octobertodecember2019

I agree waterSpider.

It's only the fact that we caught it in an area with a huge number of subsequent cases that make me even consider the idea that we might have had it.

It seems unlikely that it was Covid 19.

I find it properly weird that anyone would believe that it's possible to identify, for sure, the very first case of a virus that for a lot of people has very mild or no symptoms. How would it even be possible to do that?

My friend's father died of CV in mid December in Northern France.

[quote OhYouBadBadKitten]I'm not rejecting people's experiences at all, I had similar (but tested negative for antibodies) but why did excess deaths not rise? We didn't see an uptick in deaths until late March. If you look back at the last quarter of last year we actually had fewer deaths than usual (figure 6)

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/quarterlymortalityreports/octobertodecember2019[/quote]
It could be a few things. Covid can spread within healthier populations without causing many deaths - the death rate among under 45s is very very low. It takes time for the virus to spread enough that it reaches enough vulnerable people to start causing a noticeable, measurable increase in deaths. Once it was in care homes that's when the death rate really started to go up - it takes time for that to happen because people in care homes don't go out to work or mix much in the community - it has to come in with their carers, then it spreads like wildfire. The government made sure that spread was at its maximum possible level by sending infected people back to care homes, while perfectly healthy younger people who were at little or no risk sat at home doing nothing pointlessly.

Lockdown meant the shutdown of the NHS effectively, so some of the excess deaths will be due to people who would otherwise have gotten the healthcare they needed - for a stroke, for a heart attack, for appendicitis or asthma, dying needlessly.

My DD also had a hideous cough that started on Christmas eve and continued until pretty much the start of covid 'proper'. Bizarrely enough it then came back to a lesser extent a week before lock down.

I don't think antibody tests are picking up everyone who had it anyway it's just one immune response.

Lockdown meant the shutdown of the NHS effectively, so some of the excess deaths will be due to people who would otherwise have gotten the healthcare they needed - for a stroke, for a heart attack, for appendicitis or asthma, dying needlessly

Research has been done in France suggesting that many of the deaths of people with dementia were actually dehydration because of families not visiting and being an extra pair of eyes. There is a massive scandal that is going to come out I think.

@TheDailyCarbuncle

There is speculation (and it is only speculation) that covid was around in August in China. If that is true then there doesn't have to be a conspiracy theory involved, it just means that a new virus came along and no one knew what it was for quite a while. While no one knew it was there it was spreading around the world. Lots of people were fine, some weren't, but not enough for doctors to think it was anything but the normal flu and other viruses they see as winter hits.

It's a virus. It spreads unseen until enough cases build up for it to be noticed. That's not at all unusual, that's how viruses work.

I haven't heard this speculation but I can see the point that a new virus comes along and it takes a while to be identified.

Like @CarolVordermansArse (great name) says with cases of similar symptoms being noticed from as early as September even in the UK. That sounds awful, the hospital experience with people being wheeled out under sheets. Obviously this happens all the time but did you get a sense that it was something they thought was increasing?

Who knows! I am not even sure if the antibody tests are accurate. There sure has been a lot of debilitating illness around though.

@Teateaandmoretea

Lockdown meant the shutdown of the NHS effectively, so some of the excess deaths will be due to people who would otherwise have gotten the healthcare they needed - for a stroke, for a heart attack, for appendicitis or asthma, dying needlessly

Research has been done in France suggesting that many of the deaths of people with dementia were actually dehydration because of families not visiting and being an extra pair of eyes. There is a massive scandal that is going to come out I think.

There will also be thousands of people who die of cancer and illnesses that should have been diagnosed over the last few months but weren't.

My boss was very ill in January - he never takes time off but was emailing in about a flu he had that was making him breathless, keeping him coughing for hours and wiping him out for hours at a time after a coughing fit.

My son was very ill in the February half term - very high temperature, a very nasty cough that made him shake and he was so breathless that he couldn't make it from the sofa to the kitchen. His was exactly like described. He was vaguely ill for a few days, seemed to get better then it all came back with a vengeance.

I'm convinced it's been around and in this country for a lot longer than we think.

To the people saying they had it in february, the UK had the virus in february? At that time Im sure you could get a test if you thought you had symptoms.

Im not saying the virus wasnt around before january. But I find it unlikely so many people had it, because I think we would have seen more hospitilizations. Its fairly common for people in their 40s to need hospital treatment and we quite simply didnt have that, again one or two maybe. Actaully 8% of men who've tested positive in their 40-60s have died, so its not like its just elderly getting affected.

There was a long period in late Feb/March where hospitals were on the lookout for the virus and we just didnt have the cases. People were unlikely to be slipping under the radar with covid in hpspitals at this time. So what happened in february/march thay caused the virus to spiral out of control? And not just in the UK but accross Europe? We followed a similar trajectory initially to italy, France and Spain but a little bit later. So what happened in all those countries at that time? In the USA?

Its not just us that would have to have missed a spike in deaths in december.

Covid patients were presenting differently to flu patients. Drs were saying things like their O2 sats just drop,Ive never seen this before. If it had been so out there in the community most hospital drs would have said "hang on a second, this was happening in december'

Im sure Drs say 'theres a strange virus going round' every fucking year.

Also I work in a hospital and not many of our staff are testing positive for antibodies. If the virus had been around since september Im sure more staff would have had it.

We massively ramped up our infection control with covid

In late January I sent my mum the following message on whatsapp .

Hi mum, sorry I can't phone absolutely wiped out and exhausted. constant dry cough, feel like my chest is about to explode and as if someone's sandpapering my throat. Been going on about a week now all I want to do is sleep but I can't because of cough.

At the time coronavirus never crossed my mind but looking back I do wonder. It took about 3 weeks before I felt right again. Having said all of that I got something in March as well that had similar symptoms.. hoping if I've had the damned thing twice my antibodies are now well and truly in place.

We were really ill in December, the worst cough I've ever had, really unwell, tonnes of antibiotics. Since then we've had recurring gastric problems, sore throats and general illness.

Its interesting to think we 'may' have had it, but mainly as I'm shielded and the idea I've had it and survived is a nice one. In reality there is no way to know.

@ChubbyPigeon there are people who should have absolutely had investigations or should have been hospitalised in pre March though.

I was one of them. I was fobbed off, told I was young and healthy and I’d get over it. I couldn’t speak more than one word at a time, my chest was in so much pain I could hardly stand up and my oxygen saturation was appalling.

I had residents at my mental health unit with the same symptoms - all sent home by A&E too as they were young, didn’t have any existent respiratory problems and told they would get over it. A few it was even put down to ‘anxiety’ that they couldn’t breathe and packed off with another mental health diagnosis rather than the problem being treated (which sadly is common).

It says more about healthcare in this country than the severity of suffering that people weren’t looked after properly or that they didn’t seek medical treatment at all. I only did as I passed out during my daughters nativity play as I couldn’t breathe.

My brother works in a hospital and they have had their antibody tests. He said the results were surprising. People who were convinced they had it tested negative and one person tested positive when the only time she’s been ill was December. Obviously could have been an asymptomatic case since then and proves nothing but I think more widespread testing would be interesting.

The most pertinent part of this is loads of people (who are medical professionals) thought they'd had it but hadn't or at least tested negative.

There is absolutely no evidence that everyone who has had covid has the same immune response, it is an assumption (and a pretty large one!)

My friend works in the NHS and a colleague who tested positive for covid several times over a few weeks has tested negative for antibodies

Retrospective blood tests have shown it was around in France in November, so, this isn't a surprise.

Pretty sure I had it in Autumn last year. I coughed for four months and was in and out of hospital with low oxygen (like 70% oxygen)

Also pretty sure I had it again in March this year though was "milder" and the cough was less severe.

@Teateaandmoretea

There is absolutely no evidence that everyone who has had covid has the same immune response, it is an assumption (and a pretty large one!)

My friend works in the NHS and a colleague who tested positive for covid several times over a few weeks has tested negative for antibodies

16% of people who have had it will test negative for antibodies as the test isn't perfect.

I read in the last week or so, scientist had had a positive covid 19 test, but did have any anti bodies in his blood.

He studies T cell in cancer treatment he was saying if your body dealt with this virus using T cells which is the first line of defence that you may not have any antibodies.