Doctor says DS (7) probably had CV in December

[Freetodowhatiwant]

Just that really, fascinating if we could find out. DS, 7, had a cough like I’ve never seen before at Christmas in Spain. I’ve been to hospital about 15 times with both of my children, more often the younger one, when they’ve had croup or a viral wheeze so I’m very used to what these sound like. The cough ds has at Christmas saw him coughing for weeks and weeks but at the peak had him non stop for 5 whole hours without any break. By 2am that morning when nothing was stopping him coughing I went to the chemist to get some steroids as I know this is what we are often given in hospital for croup but I knew there was no croup or viral wheeze, just this constant dry cough. As it was by the time I got back from the chemist he had finally stopped coughing enough to sleep and they next day at the clinic they gave him inhalers which he needed for a good few weeks afterwards.

Anyway I had a call today from his younger sibling’s asthma doctor and although I was pleased to report the 5yo has not had to use an inhaler for months and months I said it was funny as DS had had to have one. She asked for details about this and said it sounded like he had had Covid back in December, especially given we were in spain.

Who knows! Would BA interesting to get him an antibody test but as far as I’m aware they are expensive and not always accurate.

@Bol87

Interesting even doctors think it’s been kicking around that long! I thought it was largely conspiracy theorists..

They need not be mutually exclusive.

I have a positive antibody test. The only time I was ill at all was Christmas, and I was very ill with Covid symptoms for a month. Or flu, as the doctor then told me.

Harvard University published a study last week that showed that there was a massive increase in hospital traffic in Wuhan last August, and increased internet searches on the Chinese browsers for Covid type symptoms. They conclude that an illness was already circulating in Wuhan in August.

That would make sense. If something that presented like a bad flu suddenly emerged in December, it's rather unbelievable that a doctor in China suddenly thought that it was presenting so oddly it might not be flu and looked for another cause. Doctors tend to go looking for oddities only when enough of them have presented.

A woman in my town had a positive antibody test which a chemist is offering. Only time she had been ill was December. However she alsk said her husband had a positive antibody test through work. As the only work place offering them is the NHS it is also possible he brought it home from work and they were asymptomatic i suppose

I think the first confirmed case in France is 27 December, with a suspected case the week before. If it was in France, there is no reason it wouldn't have been n the UK

I'm assuming none of the rest of the family caught it from him? Or got a much milder version?

Forgot to say - I passed the cough on to Dh. He couldn’t shake it for two months but wasn’t as bad as me. Dd age 6 had a temp for a week, teenage Ds was ok.

I was working in healthcare though with patients who frequented appointments at what ended up being the worst hit hospital for deaths in London, so my viral load would have been much larger.

My mum was extremely ill around christmas. So much so that Christmas day was cancelled. She was coughing for weeks and literally couldn't go for more than a minute without a coughing fit. She's convinced she's had it.

I also suspect I might have had it. We were in South America on a cruise..

I'm almost sure my dd had it at the start of the year. She was sent home from school in January feeling really unwell then started with a high temperature and cough. Given antibiotics for a possible chest infection which didn't touch it and then stronger ones and an inhaler at the end of February. Her cough lasted 10 weeks and the doctor diagnosed walking pneumonia which is never heard of. Despite me asking I was told that there was no way it could be COVID as she hadn't travelled out of the country or been in contact with any one in the at risk group. She struggled to walk up the stairs 🙁

Dh also has a weird cough where he would cough and then couldn't get breath in - he says it was like his throat closed and he had to concentrate to breath in. Several times he passed out which was terrifying.

Both have still a cough on and off but are much improved.

Of the other dc, they had what seemed like a mild bug which only lasted a few days around the same time. I had no symptoms of anything apart from a sinus infection.

I so want the antibody test to be made available to all so I can see if my suspicions are correct - currently still keeping very much to self isolation as we have several elderly relatives living on the farm with us 🙁

This is all very interesting, thanks for the replies. Especially interesting from those of you who have had positive tests like @ChristmasCarcass. I do realise they are not foolproof but that is good news @cptartapp that you had a mild version of the illness, had been in Sevilla and tested positive and you @Moondust101 having been confirmed to have had it presumably while ill in December.

Now you mention the conjunctivitis @babybythesea

I had heard that it was around earlier but I guess I just didn't expect it to have touched us personally - especially in my 7yo DS. So many of us have said they think they have had symptoms of it but who really knows until we get the test. After DS was ill I had a wheeze for about six weeks (I don't have asthma officially but many years ago had an awful cough and since then have occasionally had to use a blue inhaler) and had to use an inhaler quite regularly which is unusual for me. But who knows! I would love us to have the tests.

For the wider population on the whole I also would love it to be the case that many of us did have it as it would mean that a) we were hopefully immune, if the antibody theory turns out to be correct and I realise that the jury is still out and b) that the illness was mild enough not to hospitalise us and also even milder in many cases.

Interesting what you say about your DD @Sipperskipper. In fact although DS' really bad symptoms happened when we were in Spain he had definitely had the cough for a longer period before we went out to Spain. It just got really bad on Boxing Day and that was the night he coughed for 5 hours non stop. I had actually been worried about his cough going back a lot earlier, to late September, but obviously that seems way too early for it to even have been suspected early Covid. Then again you suspect yours might have been @LemonadeAndDaisyChains. But it was just very very severe by the time we got to Spain at Xmas so I am guessing maybe that might have been two separate issues. Or of course it was just one long cough issue and nothing to do with Covid.

I should say I am not saying this with any conspiracy theory in mind, I like you @Fatted think the idea of it having been around earlier makes sense from a non conspiracy point of view. Incidentally the specialist that called us from the hospital (initially calling in regard to my younger child to check up on his asthma) is a very sensible and straightforward doctor and I can't for any moment imagine she would be thinking in terms of conspiracies either, just that it was around a longer time than we think.

I've seen it speculated that because initially it was circulating amongst less vulnerable populations -so workplaces, schools, universities - the number of deaths was relatively small. The death rate rose when it started to spread amongst more vulnerable people, and became really high when it got into care homes this would be great @SaskiaRembrandt wouldn't it? Again for reasons such as immunity (if that turns out to be 'a thing') and confirming that it can be reasonably mild for a lot of us.

And yes @Smileyoriley I take your point. The cough that I had many years ago that lead to me needing inhalers was probably the same in terms of cough symptoms but obviously not Covid.

Sorry - the conjunctivitis - I had no idea that was a symptom. Weirdly DS DID have a gunky eye one morning but it didn't stick around (no pun intended) so we didn't get any drops that time. How strange! Maybe he really did have it. And if HE had it, maybe the rest of it did. Who knows.

I'm in Italy, and at the end of January (and I'm in the south which has been largely officially untouched) I had a flu "thing" which turned into bronchitis and took me well into lockdown to get rid of. We locked down on 8/3 and I was initially relieved to get time off because was still feeling "chesty" and weak.
I can't wait for an antibody test!
I say to everyone if I had gone to the GP a month later I'd have been tested.

I’m sure my kids had it. My daughter was ill mid February with a very high temp and cough. She ended up off school for 10 days and then she was wiped out for a good couple of weeks after that. She has never been so ill, infact she is never ill: my 10 year old then had a terrible cough mid March just before lockdown and my eldest had 4 days in bed with the same symptoms as daughter.

I am also sure my boss had it in Feb. He was so ill despite telling us he is never ill and had a lingering terrible cough for weeks.

I’m not sure. I had the sinus thing in early February and then my husband had Covid in late March (I also had mild symptoms). Would rather think that they are separate viruses than that you can get it twice so soon....

I'm very anti conspiracy theories, but looking back, I've spoken to several people, and have heard many others on social media, say that they had the worst cough/flu they've ever know, in December. There have been confirmed cases in France in November, and the earliest 'confirmed' case in the UK was in January, but I don't think we can be certain that Covid wasn't around before this. I suspect that we had wave 1, which was a milder version, back in November/Dec 2019, and the tsunami of cases that we have had in March was probably wave 2, which is a mutated version, which affects people much more severely. I'm not sure we will ever get to the bottom of it

This has reminded me that one of my family members was ill last year - cough, exhaustion and chest pain. He had chest x-rays which didn't show anything up - bit it depends what they were looking for.
Haven't heard if there was an outcome but he seems better now (although possibly not completely well).

A friend and I both had something back in December. I had what felt like a bad cold but without the snottiness, for around 2 weeks, with different symptoms individually; so for a few days I ached all over, then I had a headache, then a sore throat, and so on.
My friend started the same but got a chest infection. He was then diagnosed with another just before we went into lockdown.

We suspect we had in December. I was really poorly just before and over Christmas. I’ve never had a cough like it, and could barely stand up. I was really ill for nearly two weeks, and not great for a while afterwards. I had a terrible chest and it’s not something I suffer with. Ds(4) who is chesty was very unwell for a few days and was seen at A&E on Boxing Day where we told he was just well enough to stay at home, and needed to see our GP as soon as we could for another check up. When he was seen, they said he was very poorly, but that lots of people seemed to be affected by this unusual virus. DH was unwell for unwell for 48 hours, but left with a cough, and DS1 had a high temperature in evening, went to bed and got up fine. My mum, who stayed with us just before we got symptoms, was hospitalised for five days with ‘pneumonia’ and was very week for a good month afterwards.

I too wonder if it has been around before the beginning of the year outside China, and much earlier there than December. I have absolutely no scientific background or basis for that though!

The lack of openness from the Chinese authorities is nothing surprising though is it?

I'm not sure what is gained by "not telling us the truth" though - maybe it's just not known for definite. I think if it could be proven through testing past patients sufficiently that it was here earlier, and proven that a lot more of us have had it, and that April could possibly have been our "second wave" - surely that would be a good thing?!

I expect people much, much cleverer than me have actually thought about this though!

Back in December my childcare setting had a lot of cases of prolonged coughing, temperatures, fatigue and loss of appetite.Some children also had a rash. Many parents were ill as well. A couple of children needed hospital treatment. Several have inhalers that didn't need them before. I was actually looking at whether or not we needed to report it but doctors were saying it was a "just a virus".

In January one family received a letter from PHE saying that they were investigating a cluster of viral cases and their child's sample was being included. They didn't hear anything else though.

I'm not an expert obviously but with hindsight if that was happening now we would assume Covid19.

@tapdancingmum
My parent flew home from Oz via Singapore mid Jan, 2 weeks after my Dad had a really high temp, aches and pains so bad that he could barely hold a cup. He then went on and had pneumonia, he was so ill for a good couple of months.
At one point he texted me to say where all the paperwork and wills are because he felt so ill.
I believe and so does his GP that he had it.

I think I MAY have had it in December. I had a terrible cold from 28th December and I never get ill and even if I ever do I just power on through, unless I'm physically vomiting I normally just continue as normal when ill (not healthy I know).

But I literally couldnt with this. I would wake up and go downstairs and then have to rest for a while on the couch before going to make a tea because the walk downstairs took it out of me. I also, alongside the cold, developed a UTI which I've never ever had before. No over the counter stuff seemed to work so I ended up on anti biotics. It seemed weird but now I know covid attacks the kidneys so I wondered if they were linked. It took me 2 weeks to recover which I know isn't long but a normal cold takes me days to recover. It just seemed that for me it was quite an extreme illness.

The biggest question mark over all these much earlier ‘cases‘ is if that were the case then what happened in March? Why, if it have been around for months, did we suddenly see exponential growth then? It can’t be simply be a matter of not recording them as there was also a large spike in deaths linked with the March spike.

A family member had very bad 'flu' around October/ November which did not improve, in fact it gradually became so bad that an ambulance was called. It was some time before all tests were completed as the medics thought it was sepsis. It wasn't. It was pneumonia, and 'an infection', assumed to be a virus, which was not identified. After 3 weeks they were allowed home.

A couple of weeks later they were back in hospital with the same symptoms and back on oxygen. We thought they would be in hospital for Christmas.
Watching people being wheeled out of the ward covered in a sheet was a concern and there was a time we thought it was going to be the end.

The symptoms had been those for Covid at the beginning but of course, no-one knew then., in a ward of patients on oxygen,

What happened from beginning to end makes us think it was here possibly from September/London Fashion week (as a guide to timing).

There is a small possibility that my husband and I had it the first week of February.

My husband caught it first - very tired with a cough that went on for weeks, which is incredibly unusual for him. Apart from the cough he recovered well.

I caught it a few days after he did - exhausted, sore throat, cough, loss of appetite for about 4 days. My acid reflux got much worse too, although I had taken ibuprofen as I felt so bad and I put the reflux done to that (probably correctly). I was wheezing badly for a couple of weeks too, especially at night, although that could also have been the acid reflux.

Our grown up daughter, who we see a lot of, was quite mildly ill after us.

Another thing worth mentioning is that my husband caught it at work and he works in one of the worst CV hotspots in the country. We live in an area that has a relatively low number of cases. At least 2 people in his office, although on another floor, were confirmed cases and one was in an induced coma for a few weeks. Lots of my husband's direct colleagues had the illness we had and we are sure that's were he caught his and passed it on to me.

We are still acting as if we haven't had it though. As others have said it could be any other virus knocking around at that time of year. Will be curious to see what an antibody test will show.

Correction to the above, should read (dodgy cursor)...

'Watching people being wheeled out of the ward covered in a sheet was a concern, in a ward of patients on oxygen, and there was a time we thought it was going to be the end.'

Just a reminder that there are other coronaviruses out there (e.g. OC43), that have similar symptoms but - I think - there are no tests for them. About 15% of 'colds' may be caused by one of the family of coronaviruses, which have been around for 100+ years.

In the early days of testing in the UK, only those with symptoms got tests (many in NHS) and the vast majority didn't have it.