Is coronavirus actually as bad as this claims? Surely we'd of heard more about that?

[YellowEllis]

I was finally becoming relatively relaxed, but I find this very alarming?

Haenow I have coeliac disease and Hashimoto’s, so the only medication I take is thyroxine replacement. My child the same.
I did read something that people on immune suppressants might be helped rather than hindered by their medications, is that what you mean ?
Doesn’t apply to us if so, we still have overreacting immune systems .

@lousleftkneelies

To be fair I don’t think Moondust001 did compare it to flu she just pointed out that it’s not the only illness that causes long-term issues in some people therefore not exclusive to this coronavirus.

I’m not medically trained but I know it’s common for a virus to cause other issues. I know in the past when I’ve had genuine influenza that I was fatigued for quite a while after.

From the start of this pandemic, attempts to align coronavirus with flu has been a way of downplaying the impact of the former. That was clearly the point of moondust’s post.

My own point is that, if we’re to align, directly/indirectly compare, discuss coronavirus in relation to other illnesses, it should be the multi system disorders that I cited, and not flu. That comparison is not helpful.

In fact, it was SAGE’s working assumption that coronavirus = influenza, way into late February, that has proved so disastrous to our scientific response.

On Sage’s misguided influenza modelling:

That guidance is referring to the pandemic response. This thread is about the after effects of the virus on the individuals that have been infected.

@ThousandsAreSailing

Way up thread someone said patients are not being followed up. This isn't true. I'm a HCP and am currently carrying out post covid assessments on all patients who tested positive regardless if they were admitted to hospital or not. The assessment has been designed across trusts so it isn't just my trust The assessment is very comprehensive and the patient will be referred onto appropriate teams if indicated. Rehab, S&L, MH, dietician and so on Despite having numerous other conditions the patients I followed up all had few or no after effects from covid. Once all are completed we will have a better picture

Most of my patients who have had it never got tested. Most of them didn't end up in hospital and so therefore were not eligible for testing (March/April). Quite a few of them have ongoing symptoms. As a GP, I have no idea what to do with them.

From the start of this pandemic, attempts to align coronavirus with flu has been a way of downplaying the impact of the former. That was clearly the point of moondust’s post.

This.

Covid is awful. Any attempt to downplay it will not help the situation. We needn't cower in fear for however long it takes to get a vaccine, and we can adapt and create a new normal which both enables us to live in the world and protect the people mist at risk (though EVERYONE is at risk), but we do need to have a very robust respect for how badly it can fuck you up, even when you don't die.

The only person I know who has had it offiicially is a friend of mine who is a nurse and tested positive months ago and her only symptom was a loss of smell. She’s overweight and unfit. But she is 31.
Her partner who is also overweight and has the most terrible diet, he’s also an ex smoker just had a mild cold. Her little boy had nothing at all..

None of them have any lasting symptoms or damage. She said she feels fitter than she has in a long time and is even looking into taking up running.

So how can it effect people so differently?

Even if that one tweet isn't by a nurse, there are articles everywhere about this, from doctors and epidemiologists who have had it badly and continue to suffer.

Yes, I’ve come across quite a few – some below - which is why I’m continuing to be cautious. Also been noticing more articles about the so-called ‘longhaulers.’ The group who have had ‘extremely mild’ to ‘mild’ symptoms and usually ill at home, but have been unwell for some time. There’s a support group for these now on FB, I believe.

The issue on MN though – as pp note – is that the focus is on mortality rate, although tbf this is the way the daily briefings have steered things, and partly for good reason. Those who are concerned about mortality but also other possible negative outcomes are continually classed as ‘dementors’. A useful way of ‘othering’ anyone who raises these issues, so minimising their discussions. But the evidence does seem to suggest that avoiding the virus as far as possible is sensible. The Deputy Chief Medical Officer in Ireland recently highlighted this, it also seems to be under discussion in other countries but relatively downplayed here so far. It’s a difficult line to tread though, obviously it’s not useful to encourage health anxiety, which in itself is damaging, but at the same time if downplayed too much it can lead to people taking risks they might not if otherwise informed. But it’s very clear that this is, so far, an unusual illness.

I'm sure that we were hearing weeks ago from more reputable sources than FB that CV can cause permanent damage to the body. It can't be news to people following this virus.

It does seem surprising but it depends on where they are getting their information presumably, a lot of people don’t follow newspapers or news programmes…And the official announcements, at least in England, have not exactly been clear!

My entire family are medics. They feel the same way about the permanent damage Covid seems to be doing to many patients. The lung damage and long term repercussions are frightening and currently under researched.

Yes that seems clear from this reported earlier - also seen reports by cardiologists on cardiac issues, neurologists on neurological issues and so on...

It created such massive damage in those who spent more than a month in hospital that it resulted in “complete disruption of the lung architecture”, said Prof Mauro Giacca of King’s College London.

In findings that he said showed the potential for “real problems” after survival, he told the Lords science and technology committee that he had studied the autopsies of patients who died in Italy after 30 to 40 days in intensive care and discovered large amounts of the virus persisting in lungs as well as highly unusual fused cells.

“What you find in the lungs of people who have stayed with the disease for more than a month before dying is something completely different from normal pneumonia, influenza or the Sars virus,” he said. “You see massive thrombosis. There is a complete disruption of the lung architecture – in some lights you can’t even distinguish that it used to be a lung.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/15/covid-19-can-damage-lungs-victims-beyond-recognition-expert-says

IRELAND’S DEPUTY CHIEF Medical Officer, Dr Ronan Glynn, has warned that many people are suffering from prolonged side effects from Covid-19, despite being recorded as having recovered from the illness.
www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-long-term-side-effects-5120626-Jun2020/?utm_source=shortlink

nltimes.nl/2020/06/12/shocking-nearly-recovered-covid-19-health-issues-months-later

www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/11/coronavirus-chronic/?arc404=true

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/coronavirus-long-term-effects

www.tctmd.com/news/covid-19-related-inflammatory-syndrome-kids-needs-cardiac-follow

It is sad seeing people post about friends or family who has mild cold symptoms and bounced back in a few days, as if that somehow invalidates the experiences of others who were or are genuinely frightened by their experience.

if that somehow invalidates the experiences of others who were or are genuinely frightened by their experience

That isn't what I was trying to do; I was merely trying to reassure the op and others who might read this that it is perfectly possible for the illness to be mild. And in fact it is mild in most cases. The majority of people who have it and are not hospitalised are not bed bound for weeks and struggling to walk up stairs 6 weeks later.

That isn't what I was trying to do; I was merely trying to reassure the op and others who might read this that it is perfectly possible for the illness to be mild. And in fact it is mild in most cases. The majority of people who have it and are not hospitalised are not bed bound for weeks and struggling to walk up stairs 6 weeks later

This. Stating the fact that many people actually DO have a mild version of the disease doesn’t disprove anyone else’s experience of it.

I’d say I was somewhere in between. Wiped out by it beginning of March but only for a few days. Had the cough, fever, jelly like legs and everything and even the shortness of breath in the second week. To me, it felt absolutely like flu. That doesn’t mean that I believe that everyone experienced it the same way I did!

Can anyone explain for me how a disease like this has such a huge spread of outcomes? I think it is unusual is it not? The spectrum of severity is quite odd to me but I’m no scientist or medic

@Sassenach85

Can anyone explain for me how a disease like this has such a huge spread of outcomes? I think it is unusual is it not? The spectrum of severity is quite odd to me but I’m no scientist or medic

One of the factors that is becoming ever clearer is air pollution. To quote an article in the Guardian: "Air pollution may be important in three ways, studies show. Higher death rates due to lungs and hearts weakened by dirty air is the best understood. Pollutants also inflame lungs, potentially making catching the virus more likely and raising concern about rising pollution levels after lockdowns are lifted. Finally, particles of pollution might even help carry the virus further afield."

But the only way we will learn about variations in severity is through proper studies of those who have provably had Covid-19 and had prolonged problems, including their medical histories and living and working conditions.

@Sassenach85

Can anyone explain for me how a disease like this has such a huge spread of outcomes? I think it is unusual is it not? The spectrum of severity is quite odd to me but I’m no scientist or medic

Polio is the same - for some people it’s a cough and a fever, for some it’s disability and death.

Thanks for your replies I didn’t realise that about Polio

Chicken pox certainly can. I know of cases from just a few spots through antibiotics through hospitalisation to one of DDs friends that has permanent brain damage from it. And that is one that we normally get immunity when young. It also gets worse as you get older (I got it at 21 from my mother so that is definitely true). It of course can also come back as shingles.

CHicken pox in a community that has no immunity I suspect would be awful. Its just been around for so long

attempts to align coronavirus with flu has been a way of downplaying the impact of the former

only because people downplay flu as well. Flu is a serious illness and it's not just like a cold.

All viruses can lead to lasting effects in some people - from chicken pox to Glandular fever. My husband had six months chronic fatigue after having the latter in his 20s, fortunately it only lasted that long, it can be far worse.

It's no good scare-mongering, all you can do is hope that if you get a virus of any kind that you will get over it quickly without lasting repercussions. It's not something you can control unless you never go out.

A neighbour (probably in early 60s) was in icu in hospital for 9 weeks with COVID19. She's home now and I saw her daughter pushing her down the road in a wheelchair - she definitely seems to have been badly affected and still very much recovering.

Many viruses have long tail after effects.
My DH has a cough for 6 months after a bout of flu. Apparently it’s called post virus nasal drip.

Polio is the same - for some people it’s a cough and a fever, for some it’s disability and death

My MIL survived polio paralysis and from fairly early on this pandemic has reminded me of the polio virus. Poliovirus was mostly symptomless (about 3/4 of people), with the rest experiencing mild to flu-like symptoms and only a small minority getting the very severe form of the disease. The symptomless and mild cases allowed the virus to run riot through populations.

As far as I am aware it is still not known what causes some people to experience such severe symptoms.

@viques I was about to post the same. It is scary how this virus leaves lasting after effects.
The link to dementia is also interesting.

Micheal Rosen who was diagnosed back in April is now in a wheelchair.
I don't know if that's a permanent thing he mentioned it on his twitter so it's not a case of you get ill then get better or die. This is nasty stuff things like that and this post and there was another floating around about people who have autopsied covid patients about the mess left behind.

I have decided for me and mine that this is no time to be throwing caution to the wind we are still very seriously socially distancing and avoiding anywhere that isn't essential. Whilst masking up when we can't avoid it.

Nousernameforme

Kate Garraway's husband has been very badly affected too. They were talking about him on GMTV last week. He's been in ITU for ten weeks or so and apparently isn't regaining consciousness. It's really not a case of not being dead = absolutely fine, which is how it's often presented on these threads.

No indeed it's an awful awful disease.