Why can’t schools...?

[Howsaboutwejust]

Why can’t Primary schools just take 30 per bubble? They could eat packed lunches in classrooms and not mix with other bubbles. Where toilets are an issue one year group use the boys and one year group the girls (this would work in my school because two classes share one set of toilets). If they need more toilets then surely some kind of portaloo wouldn’t be too hard to organise?
And why can’t secondary schools (for years 7 & 8 at least) teach children in their register groups. Work as in year 6 where one teacher teaches the whole curriculum. I realise that would take some planning and reading up on different subjects, but surely at the level of year 7 & 8 it would be do-able?
If only Boris would say full classes can be together then all this would be fixed. I know that it would mean mixing more households but with siblings in different bubbles as it is now lots more than 15 households are mixing.

I think that firstly, the low uptake of places from the eligible year groups has made the government think that a majority of parents are not ready to return their children yet.

Secondly, it is not yet clear whether children cause outbreaks - we will need 3 or 4 more weeks for that - so having smaller numbers in a bubble allow the brakes to go back on more easily.

Thirdly, there is a big hang up on distance from others at the moment in the rest of society - 2m, 1m. No distancing at all is possible with 30 so that's a big jump for a lot of parents to make in their head, and many aren't comfortable with allowing their children to take risks they aren't allowed to do themselves. We are hopeful that children aren't affected too badly by the after effects of the virus, but it is hard to say as yet. Public opinion takes time to shift - despite what we read on here, there is still massive reluctance from parents to return to school in the real world.

I think we will be down to 1m soon, but that still leaves 15 to a class, realistically. At least Scotland and Wales have been honest about how the future might look.

Presumably because the classrooms aren't big enough for 30 to even slightly distance between them.

30 kids crammed in a warm classroom sounds like an experiment at the moment.

You are coming at this problem from the wrong angle.

For every parent who is desperate to get there kids back to school there is another who can’t or won’t.

So the question we should all really be asking is: how can we ensure ALL students are getting an education from September, even if they are still attending online school?

Because I hate to break it to you but without enforced attendance through fines attendance will be highly variable and impossible to manage. This will have a knock on effect on how we can deal with the curriculum.

Before anyone says it’s not an issue- it already is. Over the last two weeks my friend’s primary has had students turning up for one day and not the rest of the week.

Also, the more people in a bubble, the more people who have to isolate through track and trace when there is a confirmed case.

Anyway, it’s all academic. The second wave will have hit by then and we’ll all be screwed.

So the English teacher teaching anaerobic respiration, Mandarin and Martian Luther King after a bit of reading? It’s a plan without any flaws. Motion carried.

1m social distancing is only recommended by the WHO with PPE. Current government guidance says teachers shouldn’t wear PPE (I suspect because they know it couldn’t be sourced in sufficient quantities). Plus poor ventilation increases risk so stuffy classrooms crammed with 30 kids are not ideal. Kids might not get as ill but they can transmit. So what about all the adults working in a school? Nobody seems to care about them. And what about the parents with health conditions or the older parents / carers aged 45 plus? Kids have been getting an education - yes it not ideal but the real disaster is the 40,000 plus deaths that have happened in our country. Sending millions of children and school staff back into unsafe environments will only add to that and continue the spread of the virus. Much better to accept kids back in smaller groups part time until it is safer.

I would just like to point out to all those parents who have been moaning about teaching their own children for the past few months that they have only themselves to blame if your children have fallen behind. Apparently all you had to do was some planning and reading up and you could have taught the entire curriculum . See, easy wasn't it.

@LindaLovesCake yes, exactly that. I think that as an emergency measure, in an emergency situation the English teacher would manage to teach most subjects to a reasonable standard certainly to year 7 and probably year 8.
Surely with some parents not wanting to send their children to school then the 30 children in a warm classroom wouldn’t be an issue.

A year 4 teacher teaching nursery isn't ideal, but they will be trained in primary and that covers all subjects/ages - and it will only be a few weeks. I would worry that teaching y8 at secondary could lead to issues as kids are taught things wrong by non-specialists which will then need to be unlearnt in y9.

That made me chuckle. My dd is an excellent secondary school maths teacher. She could teach chemistry and physics with a 'bit of reading up'.

God help the kids she was teaching English, history, geography or any languages!

@Flagsfiend not sure about nowadays but certainly when I trained there was no EYFS training unless it was opted for specifically. I do take your point about things being taught wrongly. I meant in September really. I have accepted that my secondary age kids won’t be back before then.

Trust me, no one wants me to teach Maths to anyone. Ever.

Or Physics or Chemistry.

@UnaCorda year 8 are 12/13 for starters

And this is why I wouldn't want to teach maths...

I'd be confident teaching almost anything to Year 7, but most of my colleagues panic if ever asked to to cover my subject - languages. I'd struggle with IT.
And I'm not sure where I'd find all the reading time. They might be better completing the work at home with teachers spending time planning appropriate tasks and giving feedback.

@RuthW why not? She knows how to teach. She knows how to manage a class. Why can’t she? My DD is in year 7, I have seen her science work and her English work and it’s not ridiculously hard stuff. Ok so your dd may not be excellent at it but surely for a while, she could manage.

Maybe not EYFS specifically, but if you have a primary background you'll not be teaching wrong things to the nursery children. At the moment as long as they are safe and happy it probably doesn't really matter what they are learning anyway. I reckon I'd do a better job teaching nursery than y8 English, I genuinely do not have any clue with analysing literature and did not enjoy English when I was at school. I love reading and I'm good at spelling and grammar, but I struggled with how to write an essay and would be completely lost if i had to mark one.

I think a whole class bubble with the children staying in 1 room and teachers moving between classes should work well. Most classrooms should be able to be set up so the teacher can stand 2m away from any of the children (or probably 1m by then depending on the rules). Obviously it’s not great for practical subjects or for helping children with work, but it would be a lot better than we have now and would hopefully only be a couple of months until it can be dropped altogether

@Poetryinaction yes I did say earlier that languages would be tricky. I suggested a narrowed curriculum. Maths, English, science, history, geography, RE.

Having 2 secondary aged dcs I would say that my two would get a significantly better education in school than they do home alone all day. They are totally struggling with motivation and need to get back to school.

I’m an English teacher and I could have a decent crack at French, German, Latin, History, Geography, possibly Biology. I’d have no idea how to go about teaching Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Music, IT....I could go on... And who would teach my other, older, classes while I bamboozled Y7 all day? Would a Physics teacher take up my A Level literature class? I’m delivering a full timetable via Teams at the moment.

I think that firstly, the low uptake of places from the eligible year groups has made the government think that a majority of parents are not ready to return their children yet
I don’t think this is true. Our school is now full and can take no more dc. It’s a 2 form entry First school, so yr r and yr1 and has 5 classes between those 2 and 3 key worker classes. It can not use the other two classrooms as they have no windows or sinks. They are turning families away, so I think in certain areas there is definitely a good uptake (middle class, reasonably affluent town if that makes a difference).

@TingTastic I think that would work better with y7/8/9 than 1 teacher teaching everything. It wouldn't surprise me if that is what happens, and it would be much easier to move back to normality part way through the year (in normal circumstances the kids moving is better - as then you can get tech set up etc while they walk). Not sure what would happen for KS4/5 though.

Going back 30 to a class, would mean hundreds of parents congregating in school playgrounds twice a day, walking together along roads, hordes of teens packed onto the train and bus with members of the public every day.

If you want schools back as ‘before’, you’re saying social distancing is no longer necessary at all. Would you all be happy for all workers to go back into the office ASAP as ‘before’? End of queuing at supermarkets? Hospital waiting rooms?

@Maryann1975 a classroom with no window! That sounds awful

@TingTastic

Tell
Me how you’d deal with toilets. Most schools only have four blocks for over 1000 kids.

We already get blasted for stopping kids going to the loo in lessons.

Also, just how much would you have to stagger pick up and drop off to get them all in and out. It would take all day.

AND what about busses?

@TingTastic

I think a whole class bubble with the children staying in 1 room and teachers moving between classes should work well. Most classrooms should be able to be set up so the teacher can stand 2m away from any of the children (or probably 1m by then depending on the rules). Obviously it’s not great for practical subjects or for helping children with work, but it would be a lot better than we have now and would hopefully only be a couple of months until it can be dropped altogether

This is surely a better solution than having non specialists - I'm a maths teacher and so wince when I hear some of the misconceptions from other teachers. If most lessons are done in one room with teachers moving to them, then it is much easier to manage the movement needed for practical subjects. And would still allow good quality teaching for all year groups.

Not sure my school could do this with proper distancing but if hygiene and PPE are managed sensibly then risks could stay low.

Most parents don’t get what an enourmous logistical undertaking every schools day was before Corona.

Post corona it is a nightmare.

Unless the government gives us quite a lot of money or funds more school buildings and teachers then it will not be possible to follow safe guidelines.

And I, for one, will quit.