Why can’t schools...?

[Howsaboutwejust]

Why can’t Primary schools just take 30 per bubble? They could eat packed lunches in classrooms and not mix with other bubbles. Where toilets are an issue one year group use the boys and one year group the girls (this would work in my school because two classes share one set of toilets). If they need more toilets then surely some kind of portaloo wouldn’t be too hard to organise?
And why can’t secondary schools (for years 7 & 8 at least) teach children in their register groups. Work as in year 6 where one teacher teaches the whole curriculum. I realise that would take some planning and reading up on different subjects, but surely at the level of year 7 & 8 it would be do-able?
If only Boris would say full classes can be together then all this would be fixed. I know that it would mean mixing more households but with siblings in different bubbles as it is now lots more than 15 households are mixing.

We'd not have enough toilets for a start. We have a boys toilet with two cubicles and a girls toilet with two cubicles so that's two bubbles and we'd be full!

Sounds like every secondary teacher's worst nightmare. You turn up to cover a lesson and there is no cover work set. You become more and more frantic trying to find the cover work....the kids get restless... you pick up the board pen. “So, the three jewels of Buddhism. Tell me what you already know“.

I think people are of the opinion that some proper education is better than nothing. I have always favoured the rota system of dividing the students in half and having each half in for one week in every two. But it looks like this isn’t going to happen.

The idea of narrowing the subjects would be ok with me under the circumstances. I would understand if the school dropped subjects like music and home economics during the coronavirus period.

What happens to the music teacher milicent?

And why can’t secondary schools (for years 7 & 8 at least) teach children in their register groups. Work as in year 6 where one teacher teaches the whole curriculum

Do you want your children educated or babysat?

I’m a teacher, not a machine. There are some subjects I could have a stab at but you don’t want non- specialists fucking it up.

Do you want your children educated or babysat?

And that is the crux of the matter!

I’ve been much more concerned about primary as there directly affects me but reading about the challenges of secondary provision has been eye opening. I don’t know what will happen but the September I takes of year 10 and 11 must be supported better than some have been. It must be so hard for teens facing this uncertainty.

Yes, I think the most sensible solution is a week on, a week off for years 7-9, so half classes following a full timetable with their normal teachers.

Problem is, if years 10-13 need full time school (and they do) there's not enough teachers to go round still.

And two: those ks 3 year groups continue to miss out which impacts their GCSE years further down the line.

And that is the crux of the matter!

Quite. Babysitting. With a quality education on top. Delivered by non specialists rotating in bubbles of 30. Oh the professional joy.

@elenacampana no, not across all subjects, across a narrowed curriculum. I could take learning objectives from a scheme of work for say RE. I may need to read around whatever topic/religion I’d be teaching and I’d then teach it.
I maybe am so used to teaching across subjects that I’m underestimating how hard that is to do for someone who only teaches their subject. I don’t mean that as a criticism of secondary teachers in any way. I’ve never taught secondary and am in no doubt that there are things you find natural that I would struggle with.
I am really really not trying to offend anyone. I know of course that this is out of all of our hands anyway. I just thought it was an idea that could work. I’m fully prepared to be wrong. I just think how we’re ever going to get our kids back to school is interesting.

maybe am so used to teaching across subjects that I’m underestimating how hard that is to do for someone who only teaches their subject. I don’t mean that as a criticism of secondary teachers in any way. I’ve never taught secondary and am in no doubt that there are things you find natural that I would struggle with.

The thing that we find natural - and necessary - is knowing our subject in depth.

Teach y6 style with ‘a bit of reading up’ so glad I wasted 4 years and £36k of debt in tuition fees to teach my subject. I should have done some ‘reading up’ I’m 99% sure primary teachers also do a little more than ‘read up’

Schools don't have enough teaching staff to cover sickness absence in normal times.
Even if we went back to full classes there actually are not enough teachers to cover classes. Then we have to factor in pregnant and shielding staff.
We rely on retired teachers for cover and they're just not going to do it any more if the risks are too great.
All this outrage about ' get schools back now" doesn't have any bearing on reality.

What year group do you teach usually, OP?

Because if you've taught year 5 or 6 you'll know there are students in those year groups whose maths ability far exceeds the teacher's in most/many schools. So how about a year 8 who's working at top of GCSE level? Can't see how them being taught in school by an RE specialist (unless they also had maths A level) would be any better than being taught by the maths specialist remotely.

You didn't clarify who was planning the lessons?

Also, not meant as a criticism of primary teachers, but I imagine that, whilst subjects like science/history/geog could theoretically be taught topic-style, like primary, by non-specialists, they wouldn't be teaching the proper subject specific skills would they? Just some content. There'd be so much unlearning needed to be done afterwards.

Maybe being jack off all trades and master of none you don't appreciate the complexity of the material covered in secondary. Don't mean it as a criticism...

I don’t understand why it would be babysitting. I know that a specialist in a subject would do better just as an experienced ICU nurse would do better on a covid ward than someone drafted in from another ward. But surely you, as a secondary school teacher, could muster up enough knowledge to teach an 11 year old something they didn’t already know about pretty much any topic.

But the skills? Not just the content?

If you didn't even study GCSE history, how would you know how to answer a history question in the right way? It's not just about knowledge or facts.

I would imagine subject-specific secondary teaching set remotely would be far superior and much more beneficial than this.

I would teach year 7 and 8 all subjects but who would teach my gcse groups? Or would it be on a rota?

Agreed, Appu.

@MonaLisaDoesntSmile clearly you do mean that as a criticism.

@Danglingmod I have taught across all the primary ages and have this year moved from year four to EYFS. I did mean for subjects to be taught topic style.

Perhaps my kids school have been particularly bad with their online learning package (my y9 dd and y7 Dd have exactly the same English work to do). Maybe that’s why I feel they’d be better in school getting some face to face time in school.
I repeat I was just wanting a discussion of what would and wouldn’t work. I was not saying teachers were to blame or have any power in the situation. It was just a discussion. I have said that I don’t know how secondaries work. I have taken points about toilets, entrances, travel to school etc. I will come away from the thread now as some people are clearly too touchy to see any points that might work. (And I know that’s because of all the teacher bashing threads and people telling you how to do your jobs).

If only there wasn't a deadly virus.

If only there wasn’t a 0.06% chance of contracting it and a less than 1% chance of death if you do.

Do you ever leave your house? That’s potentially deadly every time you step outside your front door.

Oh good so no more music, languages, art, tech, PE, ICT, experiments, practicals, libraries, assemblies... and now no knowledgeable specialist staff either? Contact, resources and online support with specialist teachers to be replaced with sitting in one room all day woth someone who’s googled you some facts? Sounds like it’s all about the children for sure!

I’ve read so many of these threads and am really struck by the divide in mindsets.

Some people are really thinking laterally, using innovative ideas and trying to come up with solutions to make things work.

Others seem to be putting up every barrier possible, unable to innovate, mocking people who are making suggestions, blocking ideas and threatening to quit at the first sign of change (good luck finding a new career in this environment).

I think in every profession and every role, the people who will do best are those who can adapt, with a positive solution focused growth mindset (you know, the one we’re supposed to teach the kids). The world isn’t binary, sometimes we need to take inspiration from lots of ideas which might in isolation be impractical in order to find the right middle ground.

So if someone suggests one teacher covering all subjects, please don’t scoff when maybe they’ve come up with more ideas than you have. Why not think that there could be something in it, maybe one teacher could oversee learning set by other teachers in the same way that work has been set at home. Maybe two teachers could share subjects. If it doesn’t work, that’s fine. But the schools / teachers who will do best for their pupils in this situation are those who will adapt, not those who are just waiting for the virus go away because they won’t accept things can be anyway other than how they were pre crisis.

And let’s remember, nothing is permanent. But for many pupils anything is better than they have right now.