How the hell are parents meant to work?

[worzelsnurzel123]

With this latest blow from schools and yet further delays, I predict employers will cease to be “ fair” and they will run out of the patience BJ vaguely muttered about hoping they’d have. So what are the options?

1. Resign from jobs? This could have massive impact on income, likely to affect women and the future of women’s’ rights and progress in the workplace, creation of mental health issues and socio economic problems
2. Will some parents be pushed in to feeling the have no choice but to leave kids home alone? Esp those who are borderline age group eg 8-12. Not ideal at all. Clearly this will impact on MH, safety, parental work performance.
3. Leave kids with grandparents who are likely to be over 70 in many cases, shielding or vulnerable. Risks of passing the virus on would lead to guilt , worry on both sides.
4. Wait for everything to fuck up work wise, scrabble for child care here there and everywhere, lose employers good will due to time off needed and eventually get dismissed for poor attendance, breach of conduct and or poor performance

This is a disgrace. An absolute disgrace

@okiedokieme

How about hiring one of the many 6th formers, university students or furloughed workers - what do parents normally do in summer the holidays start in a month here anyway.

Holidays usually a mixture of holiday most of which I’ve had to take already due to this shit show, and lots of holiday camps, childcare swaps and grandparents. None of which can happen. I did once try the teenager option in the form of an aupair. Never again!

Get everyone back to work in September and all students back to school. No pussyfooting about public transport, lifts, toilets etc.

Just crack on.

The thread title is odd, like you're thinking of writing a letter of complaint to the general manager of the universe. What is the government supposed to do. They've already done less than most other countries to keep folk alive and our death toll reflects that. Hard to know how much more lax you expect them to be, or how much more science you would like them to overlook.

Schools would have opened more widely if more people had sent their children in. What do you expect the government to do, exactly?

It’s a question of scale. There are 32770 schools in the UK, all of which would need “additional space” and “extra staff”

That's about it, isn't it? I can't imagine there are actually enough portacabins in existence, even if there was funding for them or someone offered them for free! There may well be capacity generally amongst adults to increase the in-school workforce but the biggest hurdle I can see to that is the DBS. Our policies dictate it is required for 'safer recruitment' but it takes, on average, a month to come through. I don't understand how they work and if throwing extra staff at it would help reduce timescales but that's a massive hurdle to overcome if we are to have extra people in classrooms.

And as a teacher, I would say I am not happy to have someone in front of my children without the basic DBS check and nor am I happy to have any body in front of my children just pretending they are giving them an education (which is what would happen). Or are we reducing this to crisis childcare?

StaffAssociationRepresentative 100 per cent agree

The only way is we drop lockdown and social distancing at schools. That's it end of. Government trying to appease ppl cos they all wanted lockdown so they gave it to us, start to open things up and people start screaming it's too early

They cannot do anything right. You want your child back at school and bot lose your common the drop social distancing and accept the risks.

You also cannot just add more space to most schools there isnt space so again it's not an easy solution because it means where do build them parent swill moan it's too far, cant afford travel and child not with friends blah blah blah.

Stop the teacher bashing the government bashing and start to realise that we as people have got otmurselves into this mess with all the mass hysteria and fear mongering

@0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h

The thread title is odd, like you're thinking of writing a letter of complaint to the general manager of the universe. What is the government supposed to do. They've already done less than most other countries to keep folk alive and our death toll reflects that. Hard to know how much more lax you expect them to be, or how much more science you would like them to overlook.

Schools would have opened more widely if more people had sent their children in. What do you expect the government to do, exactly?

Pass a temporary employment law to prevent employers being able to dismiss staff for working from home where the job allows.

Can I ask what people’s issues with Union advice is? I mean what unions are actually saying, not what the Daily Mail says unions are saying?

We need more childcare and we need it now.

Leisure centres, schools, churches, universities all have space that is not being used. Right NOW government sets out who can provide childcare and what the rules are.

There are no more keys workers. We're all being called back to work.

It is all this "maybe, maybe not" bullshit that is causing the problem. Every school decides for itself. It may open for a week and then shut down.

Schools are centres for education but they are also childcare. I get that the UK governments are fine not educating our kids, but we still need childcare.

@Lostmyshityear9 I am waming to the idea of schools becoming childcare centres who sort out all the pastoral stuff, behavioural issues, the extra stuff that Social Services and the NHS cant do and whatever government focus there is at the time. Teachers can then just come in and educate /deliver the curriculum. Maybe this is an opportunity for change

Is that not well, parenting? "all the pastoral stuff, behavioural issues, the extra stuff"

@cyclingmad

The only way is we drop lockdown and social distancing at schools. That's it end of. Government trying to appease ppl cos they all wanted lockdown so they gave it to us, start to open things up and people start screaming it's too early

They cannot do anything right. You want your child back at school and bot lose your common the drop social distancing and accept the risks.

You also cannot just add more space to most schools there isnt space so again it's not an easy solution because it means where do build them parent swill moan it's too far, cant afford travel and child not with friends blah blah blah.

Stop the teacher bashing the government bashing and start to realise that we as people have got otmurselves into this mess with all the mass hysteria and fear mongering

I will never stop "bashing" - god MN has made me loathe that word - the government. They have been catastrophically bad on almost every single front right from the start of this. The only member of the cabinet who's done even vaguely well is Rishi Sunak who has done the right thing with the furlough scheme and the support for businesses. Literally everything else the government has touched in relation to this situation has been a total screw up. Care homes - utterly screwed. Testing - a joke. Schools - don't even start me on schools. Test and Trace - non existent. Quarantine - what the hell? So I for one won't ever stop criticising the government.

@Useruseruserusee

I saw on the news that only 8% of the workforce have primary aged children and require childcare.

I honestly don’t think the government care, the percentage isn’t enough for them to.

Yes, I suspect this is a big part of it. It seems like a huge issue on Mumsnet because, erm, it's Mumsnet.

If it's not safe enough yet then it isn't safe enough yet. Obviously school buildings cannot be expanded to accommodate Social Distancing enabling more/all children to return.

I wouldn't count on September either.......

lljkk, it is not just about the death rates: it is also about the cost to society of having to deal with a large number of patients suffering from longterm effects, needing rehabilitation and/or unable to work

www.vox.com/2020/5/8/21251899/coronavirus-long-term-effects-symptoms

This seems to be a problem that often affects people of working age.

Phase 2 in Scotland apparently includes seeing 1 other household indoors so that could really help re childcare

I'm fortunate in that my daughter is 12 but I'd rather not leave her at home all day. DH is a keyworker. I can work from home but not forever, much as I'd like to.

I still want to know what all the other sectors have done to get round the problem of working during CV other than WFH. What magical formulas have other sectors used to ensure that all their workers are in and everything is fine ..

For what I've seen and heard, many sectors seems to still be floundering and 'trialing' many odd schemes as they work to expand sites open, but I mainly know people in jobs that can't be done from home.

As an example: I know some who've been working hotels that have been open to NHS & other key workers, or doing maintenance on sites hoping to open next month, now being fucked over as the hotel wants to put in an A/B week on/off system, as if people can afford to not have any pay every other week, but nothing is being explained from on high about how that's meant to work. It seems those who haven't gone on furlough are being the most fucked around as they were told this and given less than a day to decide before they'd become 'ineligible' for the company's furlough scheme.

How any of that will work in-line with whatever the schools are going to do is beyond me before getting into how people will deal when schools need to close for deep cleans if an infection is traced to a bubble. We've already had that happen with one primary, just after the May holiday when things were meant to 'reopen'.

How few deaths do we need a day to drop all the COVID related precautions?

It's currently way lower than winter flu, so what's the big deal?

I bet by end July it'll have gone, probably come back in winter a bit (but milder) then weaken into a regular winter viral infection which is only harmful to the very vulnerable (like the other endemic corona viruses)

Schools should reopen totally normally next term, with no stupid distancing rules.

They frankly could now, if people weren't in a state of rabid paranoia

My concrete proposal about primary aged kids, not to the manager of the universe, but to government:

1. More money for councils for governance for childcare.
2. Start training lots of young, out of work people in childcare. Start their DBS next week. More money to DBS so that is not the bottleneck. These aren't going to be be career child care providers, but they may need work this next year.
3. Good salaries for experienced people to oversee this childcare.
4. Forest schools. Lots of them.
5. Give parents grants to pay for the childcare.
6. Make a fucking decision about when schools will open, so childcare providers know if they invest in a business it will last. If kids are in school one week out for two until Easter, than just make the decision. Then the businesses can set around that. I know we can't predict the virus, but we have to be able to predict if we can work.
7. Or, we all realise the grand Tory dream, and all the women with children realise their true place is in the home. We all don aprons, take our Xanax, apply lipstick at 5:30 and make sure we greet our husbands with a drink as they walk through the door.

This is a really big issue to most of us on Mumsnet as we are (mainly) parents. I’m a parent and a teacher so it’s a doubly important issue to me.

But on a societal level there are many other big complex issues like this that mean just as much to other sectors of the population. Here’s some examples from my family:

My BIL travels by airline regularly as part of his job shipping luxury goods - he does the customs part. The 14 day quarantine will wreck the whole business and this is a complex issue. The impact on the economy and consequently all of us (including our children) will be huge.

My aunt has some worrying health symptoms and no sign yet when she can get a diagnosis. Opening the NHS more widely is as complex as opening schools. She would argue it’s more important.

Coronavirus is a bad situation for everyone, and as much as we can all demand that schools are the most important thing, plenty of others will demand that what is impacting them directly is more important. The government wants to protect the economy and only 8% of the workforce needs childcare for primary aged children. We also need a healthy economy for our children to grow up in for future prospects. I honestly don’t know where I stand and am very glad that I do not have to make decisions like this, where every decision will disadvantage many.

@LoveIslandVirgin

It is unacceptable. It's putting parents in such a bad position, not to mention confusing for children.

Schools have had months to work this out. Why are they acting like this is a big shock to them? Why are we only seeing school principals on the news, moving tables, working it out, etc? Where are the staff? I know Im going to be buried alive by teachers reading this but why are you not in there working this out? My children haven't been taught one lesson since schools closed. We get a vague weekly email and no offer to return work for assessment.

I'm sure you have your own ideas, don't rely on the dozy lot at management level. A lot of schools have assembly halls, gyms, large and small offices, canteens, reception areas, chapels, etc - lots of space to turn into temporary classrooms. The education authorities/councils must have been sitting on their hands enjoying time off work rather than working out a solution to returning kids to school. Can you not look beyond the school building to the wider community and borrow community halls, church halls, portakabins, etc? There are loads of teaching trainees out there who can't return to university full time and could support classes spread out. Retired teachers could come back to help out too and those supply teachers who were dealt a raw deal throughout the lockdown will only be too happy to work! I'll happy get myself a tabard and give a hand with the cleaning.

I'll sit down now, I'm getting vertigo from this tall soapbox.

Off you go teachers, get stuck in ...

😂😂😂😂😂

God, the things I would change about education if I had any say whatsoever! People clearly have no understanding of how education is managed. Commands come down on high from the DfE. Many, many commands. These are interpreted by MATs/LA who feed back to their schools how they should be implemented. Decisions about how they work are made by the Head or Executive Head in the case of a MAT. Then these might be passed through Heads of School and then the SLT before a final list of "non-negotiables" is handed to the lowly class teacher. In normal times, 90% of these things are pointless and have zero impact on the educational outcomes of your class but if you suggest this to the Head you are told you must do it to tick all the boxes.

So no, nobody will pay any attention if I suggest putting up marquees on the playing field to house extra groups, even supposing I could think of how to staff them, or find the money to pay for them given I already buy school equipment out of my own money.

Imagine the vilification in the local press if you decided to ignore the guidelines and do things your own way, then there was an outbreak at your school. Admissions would plummet.

Yes, there desperately needs to be a workable plan. We teachers want it too. I would say the number of primary school teachers especially who have their own children requiring childcare is far higher than the 8% cited above for the workforce as a whole. If we can't get childcare, including wraparound provision, for our own DC then we can't be in school full time to care for your DC. But please don't suggest it is for teachers to come up with the solutions. We have no say at all.

1. More money for councils for governance for childcare. COUNCIL TAX
2. Start training lots of young, out of work people in childcare. Start their DBS next week. More money to DBS so that is not the bottleneck. These aren't going to be be career child care providers, but they may need work this next year. AGREE - MAYBE ON THE JOB TRAINING BUT PARENTS HAVE ALREADY SAID THEY DONT WANT RANDOMS. WEAK ONES NEED TO BE GOT RID OF PDQ
3. Good salaries for experienced people to oversee this childcare. AGREE - ARE THESE SHORT TERM OR LONG TERM CONTRACTS
4. Forest schools. Lots of them. -FANTASTIC NEED LAND
5. Give parents grants to pay for the childcare.GREAT WHO IS PAYING FOR THAT AND WHO ARE THE PARENTS GIVING THE MONEY TOO. IS IT 2?
6. Make a fucking decision about when schools will open, so childcare providers know if they invest in a business it will last. If kids are in school one week out for two until Easter, than just make the decision. Then the businesses can set around that. I know we can't predict the virus, but we have to be able to predict if we can work. FAB - LETS SAY SEPTEMBER ALL BACK IN
7. Or, we all realise the grand Tory dream, and all the women with children realise their true place is in the home. We all don aprons, take our Xanax, apply lipstick at 5:30 and make sure we greet our husbands with a drink as they walk through the door. NOT ALL WOMEN JUST WOMEN WHO NEED CHILDCARE

@LoveIslandVirgin - would love to just get on with it but it all needs funding.

peony

I think you don't get cause and effect. There isn't such a high death toll now because there was a lockdown. As for "I bet", we've all got opinions.... Where's the science for this or do you feel it in your elbow?

This 👆🏻

Why the fuck are they not opening the schools? Criminal !