How/when did the tide turn on schools?

[LaceCurtains]

In the beginning the mood here was almost desperate calling for schools to be closed.

In the last week or so there's been a marked shift to getting them open (from peope here).

Is it the same people who wanted the closed, now calling for them to get back to normal or have the original campaigners gone quiet/new people got louder?

FWIW I always thought schools closed as early as they did because of public pressure and it seems to me that "other" things are getting back to normal more quickly than originally planned/expected (because of DC and the need to distract?) but schools don't seem to be included in that.

I'm at a loss as to why schools are being treated so differently. I'm SLT in school, if that makes a difference and the government guidance is a shambles. Changes daily but doesn't seem to have any clear aim.

putting our lives at risk

When I was about 14 a teacher at out school was killed when he slipped and fell down the stairs, injuring his head when he landed.

There is risk everywhere and quite frankly I'd expect a professional body of people, all of whom have degrees, to know that. But simultaneously recognise that they are teachers, not epidemiologists or public health scientists, and probably don't have the knowledge to assess this particular risk.

We cannot be in a situation where a few teachers are dictating government policy to the detriment of all children.

If on the other hand, teachers were being proactive and saying that they won't return to school but here's how they plan to deliver the entire curriculum in other ways, that's a different conversation. But in my area at least there is no school and the kids are getting, at a generous estimate, 20% of what they'd usually get. Zero realtime interaction with a teacher. No video teaching, whether live or recorded No feedback on work apart from "Amazing job! Well done" on everything handed in.

It's shit and children are most definitely surfering.

Its a massive 'fuck you' to single working mothers (predominantly) quite frankly. A lot of single mothers (myself included) work in industries that allow flexibility around school times. I can't return to work until my youngest (9yo) is back in school. If the company I work for reopen before then, I can't return to work therefore I won't get paid. Cue sanctions from universal credit for not working, and I will probably lose my job. There is no economic sense in that.
God knows how parents with office jobs are working from home and homeschooling. That is definately not sustainable.

But pubs can reopen and thousands can gather in London without observing social distancing. Social distancing rules being the reason my children can't be educated.

It's the teachers and unions that don't!

Ummmmm, no. It’s Public Health Directors i.e people with medical knowledge. And in the case of Lancashire it’s a Tory-led Council that is fully backing their knowledge and expertise based on the current situation and R rate.

Be great to put to rest this silly nonsense about militant teaching unions stopping the poor little children from accessing education because it’s just not true.

We are talking to our Unions and as Teachers we are telling them its not safe!!!!
Stop making out we want to be at school putting our lives at risk!!!

You had really better tell the nursing unions to down tools too.

Really everybody must leave every workplace at once until it is SAFE (which it never was and never will be.)

If you don’t have grandparents, friends or neighbours then another parent/s from your child’s school would be fine, you would have had a lot of time to sort it as you would have been told well in advanced (this is obviously not what happened, but how I thought it was going to be done, with direct guidelines and information)

So for instance, any households not paired up would be put together, to save any shyness issues.

David, the stay at home dad who will look after the 4 kids whilst his wife works and the other two parents go to work, might not be happy, but he can make that call before deciding to pair up with a family that has two working parents...or the workers can work full time apart from one day a week, giving David 3 full days of non parenting off.

Basically if there was clear instructions given, people could have organised things for them better.

Kind you, some people did move in with friends/parents/grandparents knowing lockdown was coming, so something like that, but not having to all cram into one house

they are teachers, not epidemiologists or public health scientists, and probably don't have the knowledge to assess this particular risk.

Fortunately, we have actual ‘public health scientists’ who have assessed the risk for us . They can do their job and when they consider the risk to be low enough all the school staff can do their jobs with all the children on site. Until then........nope, not taking the risk, thank you.

There's only one risk and that risk is Covid.

One risk to rule them all!

No harm from anything else matters.

You had really better tell the nursing unions to down tools too NHS staff, not just nurses, have had more support than schools. The GP surgeries are very quiet, I normally wait 5 days for a prescription from requesting it to getting a text to say it is ready to collect from pharmacy. I put in a request midday on Friday and it was ready to collect Saturday morning.

The NHS have stopped other services, I have a family history of certain cancers and although my samples were taken just before lockdown they were scrapped and they will contact me at some point when they can be redone. The NHS sent infected people into care homes. NHS nurses and other staff kicked off when they didn't get the PPE they wanted.

Let's stop pretending the NHS are all heroes and did everything right.

We cannot be in a situation where a few teachers are dictating government policy

Good thing we are not in that situation then...

At least the NHS didn't refuse to return to work until there was "no risk".

There's only one risk and that risk is Covid.
Yep. I don’t go round touching bare wires, standing on chairs or drinking bleach from unmarked bottles so I guess there is only one risk to me in school right now.

If only there was a way to deliver education outside of a school building! Some sort of vast network of computers that could access the same thing at the same time! That the majority of parents could use for the curriculum stuff and then not have to worry their children might fall behind!

Its interesting that as well as seeing a mood shift on here (there are quite a few threads very frustrated about schools not returning) my DH has shifted his mind as well. He strongly supported the school closure and felt it was too early for them to re-open even in a limited way without track and track in place. Our reception aged DD did not go back last week as he felt the benefits did not outweigh the risks (this is partly because her teachers are not in school - TAs lead each bubble through the work they have been doing as part of a 'virtual school', including videos from their teachers), however today she returned as a convo with other parents on Friday and seeing her play with her friends convinced him she needs the company of school. I am glad she's back, she def could do with it. Its also better for DS (year 3) - we can focus more on his home learning with her at school. Fortunately for us, the virtual learning that the school has provided has been great (daily video introducing tasks), and seemingly a lot better than what my sister's school has offered. The provision from schools is very variable it seems.

I think the length of the school closure is likely a testament to how shite the govt's handling of this whole thing has been. If we had gone into lock down sooner and got track and trace up and running, then there would be more confidence for schools to return. I also agree with posters commenting that children's welfare seems very low down the priority list - there is lots of talk of how pubs and shops can open and far too little comment about schools. I am nervous about September - what is going to change by then to get the kids back? I want to see much more info on that and action (e.g. work to turn other sites into schools, and recruiting extra teachers so kids can be taught in bubbles of 15 for longer - if they we can turn exhibition centres into intensive care hospitals in a matter of weeks surely the same can be done for schools?)

At least the NHS didn't refuse to return to work until there was "no risk".

Neither have schools.

David, the stay at home dad who will look after the 4 kids whilst his wife works and the other two parents go to work, might not be happy, but he can make that call before deciding to pair up with a family that has two working parents...or the workers can work full time apart from one day a week, giving David 3 full days of non parenting off.

Relatively few families have a SAHP by the time children are at primary school, certainly not enough IME for pairing up. Having to look after and homeschool another family's children as well as your own, is a huge ask, not to mention the problems with safety, liability etc. There is very good reason why people who do this for a living have to register as a childminder, have first aid certificates, DBS checks, you name it.

That the majority of parents could use for the curriculum stuff

And the parents who are working? Or who have three children all at different levels? Or whose children are working at a level beyond their own understanding of a particular subject?

Teachers are paid to TEACH CHILDREN. At the moment, in many state schools, teachers are handing out worksheets and links to Sumdog and similar, complaining loudly about "safe" in schools and how they're not prepared to return.

As the daughter of two teachers I'm generally incredibly supportive of schools and teachers but at the moment that respect has vanished. Schools need to be back in August full time or teachers need to be teaching full time online. No excuses. Or if they're not prepared to do that, reduce their salary accordingly and pay someone who will.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

@ProfessorHasturLaVista

There's only one risk and that risk is Covid. Yep. I don’t go round touching bare wires, standing on chairs or drinking bleach from unmarked bottles so I guess there is only one risk to me in school right now.

If only there was a way to deliver education outside of a school building! Some sort of vast network of computers that could access the same thing at the same time! That the majority of parents could use for the curriculum stuff and then not have to worry their children might fall behind!

The majority of parents have things called jobs. This is not sustainable long term.

Ps I fell and split my face open in a school.

Covid is not the only risk and you are frankly foolish if you think it is.

Oh I see, so only risks to teachers matter.

Grand so, that's fantastic to know.

The risks to pupils are of zero concern to teachers.

Apparently the Internet means schools are no longer needed, so let's shutter them all and free teachers from the children they detest.

I wasn't calling for them to be closed, though broadly supported the idea of a few weeks of closure at the beginning of lockdown whilst Nightingales were prepared, NHS capacity re-jigged and the 'curve' was 'flattened'.
However, the curve was flattened many weeks ago, the NHS's capacity to deal with Covid was increased, and we 'protected the NHS'. The needs of children (and the young generally) are still being placed far behind everything else though, and neither the government nor the unions appear at all interested in positively engaging in ensuring education for all.

The resources are out there, SockYarn. Instead of shouting in capital letters on the internet maybe concerned parents should contact individual schools who are just handing out worksheets. I don’t personally know of any schools that are doing that, but I’m sure there must be some.
Or y’know, send children to grandparents and older retired relatives for 1:1 attention. If there is no risk to school staff over 50 then what’s the problem? Ignore public health advice and get the kids over to Granny’s, after all, if it’s ok for schools, right?

Schools need to be back in August full time

I presume you mean with all children full time? Not possible under govt guidelines.

Or teachers need to be teaching full time online.

I agree. That’s happening at my (state) school.

if they're not prepared to do that, reduce their salary accordingly and pay someone who will.

Who, exactly?

It’s not illogical to have wanted them closed much earlier and now to want them to carefully reopen. We locked down too late. That has lead to much more deaths and cases. We now have a situation where we’ve had to have a very long lockdown compared with other counties which then had serious effects on mental health, children’s education and wellbeing especially the most vulnerable. It’s not as simple as being in favour of closing or being in favour of opening.

Professor most people cannot ensure their children do a full daily timetable of work because they are working. Also a lot of parents won't be able to do the work. My DS is primary age so I can manage but I'd have no chance if he was at secondary school, I didn't do well at school myself so no way would I be able to help him. And of course many parents won't bother at all. This will further widen the gap between the rich and the poor.

If on the other hand, teachers were being proactive and saying that they won't return to school but here's how they plan to deliver the entire curriculum in other ways, that's a different conversation.

Exactly, where's the proactive action from teachers in all of this. All we are hearing is "we can't do x because of y". Heaven help the country if everyone had that kind of negative attitude. Is it too much to ask that they come up with solutions rather than problems?

I’d hate to see a novel Coronavirus with no cure, vaccine etc tear through a classroom of children too. Obviously
Which is why my own dc are not going back either. And they’ll be fine, because the resources are there to use. Not optimum, granted, but at least the threat of death or disability for them or their teachers isn’t there.

The risks to pupils are of zero concern to teachers.

Apparently the Internet means schools are no longer needed, so let's shutter them all and free teachers from the children they detest.

Ignorant and nasty.