When will people be happy to start living with the risk of catching Coronavirus?

[wakeupitsabeautifulmorning]

Considering there possibly won't be a vaccination for quite some time, if at all, but things are going to have to start returning to normal for the sake of everything else - economy, education, other health issues etc. There is currently so much opposition to easing out of lockdown, people will have to get back to work and schools cannot be part time for years (childcare issues plus the massive impact on disadvantaged dc, plus the dc not engaging in home learning). Spoke to a few people today who are horrified at the thought of a return to normal as they are frightened of catching the virus. I was a bit surprised a they were under 35 with dc (no known health problems). It's like they think it's just going to miraculously vanish.

Yes, yes, we all know plenty of people were wanting a lovely China style lockdown with people nailed into apartment and children not allowed outside.

chances of surviving greater than chances of dying

That may be very true, but many younger people are so vulnerable that it's probably a 1 in 20 chance of dying. For many middle aged people it's about 1 in 100

How many people do anything in life with that probability of dying ? How many people have ever done anything that dangerous ?

@tobee A grand total of 2 people have said they would never be happy to live with the risk. One because her husband was shielding - I assume you have no problem with that? And the other, because Linda Lusardi vomited blue liquid????? (I don't think that poster is really representative of... well... anyone who's not bonkers )

The question you need to ask yourself is, do you want to be New Zealand or Brazil?

many younger people are so vulnerable that it's probably a 1 in 20 chance of dying

What condition results in a 1 in 20 chance of dying? Even taking into account underlying conditions, the majority of deaths have been in the elderly.

Yes, yes, we all know plenty of people were wanting a lovely China style lockdown with people nailed into apartment and children not allowed outside.

No, the point is that it's not accurate to talk about entering and leaving lockdown. Restrictions have increased and decreased.

We will never be New Zealand. They are an enormous country with a much less dense population.

The virus will be back for them too.

No, you are right. Nor will we be Brazil. But I am sure that you can see that although they are both different in many ways, they both exemplarise the two extremes of paths it is possible to take through this pandemic.

@nellodee as I said upthread my husband is shielding. He is the one who is prepared to take the risk. Because he thinks this is existing not living. I can absolutely see his point.

Even my husband, male, high bp, solid organ transplant recipient, in centre dialysis 3 x a week, 57, balding (shhhh!) has, apparently, only a 1 in 112 chance of dying.

I understand your husband has made this judgement, but surely you are not criticising other people who are shielding who make a different judgement?

I was pregnant during lockdown and have a newborn now. We get out and about. I'm not going to hide inside as what kind of life is that? People are ignoring the massive benefits of exercise, fresh air, and getting out and about to your mental health (which is linked to your physical health).

And actually, those people never said they would "never go out again". They said they would "never be happy to live with the risk of catching Coronavirus". Which is very different.

So, zero people have said that.

No I haven't criticised anybody I think. I'm merely pointing out that it is much more complicated than "lockdown" (I.e our version of it).

There will be a huge crisis for the NHS for a very long period of time through non Covid thing in the months to come. Even if Covid were eliminated tomorrow. Many people's health has already been, at best, compromised in recent weeks.

Plenty of people on Mumsnet have dismissed that out of hand over the last weeks. Seeing "lockdown" as a solution. And then, when realising it's not a total solution yet, pushing for it to go further and longer.

It's not a solution! That's fantasy. It's, at best, a mitigation.

But they are ignoring the fact that there are plenty of other risks they don't even think of most of the time. Because Covid is the headline topic.

Unfortunately, the fact of life does tend to risk the fact of death

What risk of dying from this virus do you all think is acceptable?

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I am happy to wear a mask on transport, to not go to any events where there are big crowds gathering, to wash my hands regularly and to self-isolate if someone asks me to (if I come into contact with someone who has tested positive). I'm also happy to voluntarily reduce my contact with others in various ways (including some social stuff) if that will help avoid a second wave.

But otherwise we need to get on with life. Our cases and deaths are reducing week by week despite lockdown beginning to ease. Other countries are seeing cases consistently decline. There is no justification for life being shut down any longer. It is doing such harm. I still have a healthy respect for the virus and don't want more people than necessary to die but life involves risk and this idea of shutting down society because a few people are sadly still dying is nonsensical.

Where do you get your figures from attackedbycritters?

The only criticism I am seeing is aimed at shielders. Asked to think about others

I’m shielding. Two years in a row my life has had months of no quality of life.

I don’t want my treatment in a years time when all the Clovid people have been treated for all the after effects.

That condemns millions to death.

I couldn’t care about some random person. I want my life. I want my own children to have me around for a bit longer. I’m only 44 ffs. I their only family.

Live has to carry on. It’s killing people. Even though I’ve had the virus, the virus will still be why I die.

With treatment I get to be a part of society again.

I don't think it's simple at all. I myself have a very inconvenient medical problem that is quite easily solved, but not until after the NHS starts up again.

I don't see the proponents of lockdown being simplistic. I see them (us) as thinking they are a correct and necessary stage in bringing down cases low enough to facilitate the earliest possible return to normality. Lockdown is not a goal, or a solution, it is a means to lowering cases until such a time as other, more subtle methods such as test and trace, become effective.

I don't see anyone suggesting that this does not involve suffering or failing to show sympathy for it. In fact, on pfrench's thread about vulnerable children and free meals vouchers, I saw far more proponents of a very cautious release of lockdown than I did of the "won't someone think of the children stop lockdown NOW" brigade.

Now. I’ve had enough. Lockdown with two toddlers is brutal! It’s affecting them as much as me...

Lots of people want lockdown to end now though.

I'm not necessarily one of them. I think people have a distorted idea of risk. But people are frightened. So it's understandable. But it's becoming an impasse.

And I see many proponents of lockdown being simplistic.

I just find it staggering that people still think that lockdown is instead of going ahead with normal education/health care/economic activity etc. It was put in place because it was/is thought that exponential growth would be more of a threat to those things. What people can't grasp about this I just don't know.

In the 21st century people think that they should be able to avoid death through lockdown. It's a fantasy. Loads and loads of the population of this country alone are not able to access proper health care at the moment for life threatening conditions. Are not getting smear tests, routine mammograms, kids not getting scheduled vaccinations, people not calling for ambulances until they they are in a really bad way with heart attacks and strokes.

The fantasy is believing any of those services would be in place if the virus had been left to run unchecked. Things are starting to look ok, they always do look ok to the average person when there is actually great risk, that is the nature of exponential growth. By the time you are seeing many sick people, it is too late. You have to act early and you have to continue till rates are low. Very patronising to accuse others of being in denial about mortality. I do think things could have been handled differently in terms of keeping some non covid health care going and getting it back sooner, it is an urgent priority and a terrible situation. It is separate from lockdown though, lockdown is not stopping people from accessing those services. If anything it speeds access to them.

Seriously I am concerned about all the untreated injuries posters here are sustaining banging their heads against brick walls. I know I have taken too many blows.