When will people be happy to start living with the risk of catching Coronavirus?

[wakeupitsabeautifulmorning]

Considering there possibly won't be a vaccination for quite some time, if at all, but things are going to have to start returning to normal for the sake of everything else - economy, education, other health issues etc. There is currently so much opposition to easing out of lockdown, people will have to get back to work and schools cannot be part time for years (childcare issues plus the massive impact on disadvantaged dc, plus the dc not engaging in home learning). Spoke to a few people today who are horrified at the thought of a return to normal as they are frightened of catching the virus. I was a bit surprised a they were under 35 with dc (no known health problems). It's like they think it's just going to miraculously vanish.

I'm ready now. As are most of my friends.

People managed to exist through the Hong Kong flu of the 1960s. It's estimated 1 - 4 million people died globally. There was no lockdown.

Interesting comparison Tobee but you left out the fact that in the countries where it was a major problem – as Coronavirus is here but less than it might have been because we locked down – things were dire. There was a massive impact on industry and on general public services. In China and Hong Kong telephone services, light and power all hugely affected with 200 out of every 300 workers in key areas off sick or dying at the same time – and this was an illness that averaged four or five days (a bout of Coronavirus lasts a lot longer than that in many cases, 1 in 20 even of the mild cases have symptoms that have been ongoing for 10 weeks). Coronavirus also has a higher CFR case fatality rate than Hong Kong flu (H3N2). And Coronavirus can have an horrific impact on long-term health.

I have read the reason of why services have closed down. I may have misinterpreted it -

Basically, we need to stay in lockdown because of the long term impact of those who have had it? That they will need physio etc for a long time.

I'm ready now, have been for several weeks. Baffles me when I see so many people desperate to continue as we have been 🤔

February 23rd. This year, not next.

It’s really simple when you stand back and think about it.
The longer you stay home the less chance you have of contracting CV, but equally the less chance you have of having a job/normal life to return to.

The thing that astounds me about about society (Never more visible than on MN) is the total entitlement from people that they should be able to ‘lockdown’ for months without it having any impact on their income or lifestyle.

Of course there will be mass job losses
Of course there will be massive gov debt
Of course people will lose homes...etc

It’s cause and effect and unfortunately a lot based on luck. The gov were not responsible for CV19, it was completely unprecedented and frankly the U.K. has done far more to help people financially than most other EU countries have.

The only people who should be being excused from regular life now are either extremely or clinically vulnerable. Everyone else, anti bac your hands, social distance as effectively as you can and get back to daily life!

What do you think of the wrongs being done to huge sections of already disadvantaged people due to the lockdown? People who have lost their jobs? Women and children currently locked up with abusers? People whose cancers and other serious illnesses are being missed or not treated? Women with postnatal depression who cannot access support?

Or is the only "wrong" here covid deaths?

Not at all NowI'mlivininExeter the context was the disproportionate number of deaths from the BAME communities.

The awful consequences of lockdown you list are undeniably hideous.

But as has previously been argued on here, some of us don't see it as a "one or other" situation. There can be very cautious, very gradual , PARTIAL easing of lockdown measures, under very strict limits surely? It's hardly going to improve people's job prospects or chances of receiving cancer treatment or dv/pnd protection and counselling if we succumb to a second wave (or waves) necessitating further lockdown(s).

@canigooutyet

I have read the reason of why services have closed down. I may have misinterpreted it -

Basically, we need to stay in lockdown because of the long term impact of those who have had it? That they will need physio etc for a long time.

So why don't we live in permanent lockdown, given that there are many illnesses which have a long term impact and will result in patients needing physio, etc afterwards? That doesn't make any sense at all. Not having a go at you, I just can't see any logic in it.

@tobee

"Theres room for managing covid, the economy and the everyday things people are missing "

And does other healthcare fit into that?

Well it has to doesn’t it? Again with modifications but it can and it is. In fairness a fair bit of non-covid healthcare never stopped. Certain procedures are still high risk for everyone involved so are still works in progress but I’ve every confidence they’ll start back up soon in some capacity.

Pandemics generally last a couple of years. There’s no point in us sticking our heads in the sand or outright refusing to accept the situation.

@YounghillKang my reference to the Hong Kong flu was based on an article in the New York Times (iirc) written by a man who lived through Hong Kong flu. He didn't come to the conclusion that we should or shouldn't have lockdown. It was, rather, concentrating on how in 21st century we, in the west, are generally much further away from life threatening contagious diseases e.g polio, diphtheria etc. We're not used to living alongside these illnesses any more.

Our solution is lockdown. Which, on the face of it makes sense, but it pushes many other things to one side. Here and now healthcare issues. Etc etc. Not just people not going on holiday.

Happy to start living with it - when we know more.
What are my chances of being immune afterwards?
How is it mutating?
Good treatments so that the chances of dying from it are smaller.
What's the longer term damage to the body?
I'm not optimistic for an effective vaccine.

My kids won’t be returning to school until September (not my choice) so I can’t return to work due to being a single parent with kids with special needs. I’m not scared about going out or catching covid, more worried about spreads it but I feel the risk is low if we stick to the 2m distance full and wear face covering when we need too.

Your children have more chance of being knocked down by a car on the way to school then they do dying of covid, your more likely to be involved in a road accident or die of another illness.

I do understand that there are people who will still be very worried due to health issues and I respect people choosing not to return to work or school.

We're not used to living alongside these illnesses any more.

It’s more complicated than that. Until recently most illnesses couldn’t be treated. Now the choice would be to whether to withhold treatment.

So if it turns out that there is no vaccine, and no effective treatment, and it leaves you with long term problems (which by the way plenty of other viruses do), what will you do? Never go out again?

If it turns out there is no vaccine, no effective treatment and it leaves us with long term problems, I would expect that we would eradicate, or basically eradicate it, by use of technology, such as mass producing tests which we would take on a weekly basis.

Nobody is suggesting that people never go out again (this wasn’t even most people’s reality when there were more restrictions) and it is more likely than not that there will be a vaccine or effective treatment within the next 2 years.

For example, China claims to have tested every single one of Wuhan's 11 million residents over a period of ten days.

Now.

I understand it's more complicated than that @merrymouse .

And I think the current situation is more complicated than "lockdown".

Actually plenty have people on this very thread have replied "never" @merrymouse .

@BamboozledandBefuddled

Neither can I, that's why I was asking for verification because that is how it reads.

And if that's the case, yea I'm not waiting for another year for treatment I should I have back in March. But it had to be cancelled I got the bastard virus. I'm sure many will feel the same considering many are opposed to the idea of long term locked away from society.

Cannot belief either that I have read people saying to shielders and vulnerable to think about everyone else.

Call me selfish. Call me what you want. I really don't care. Because quiet frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck about some random person. I want the treatment I should be having. My health is suffering along with millions of others. The "Shielded" Shielded from what? Society getting exposed to us because it seems that way. Has done so from the beginning of this.

Actually plenty have people on this very thread have replied "never" @merrymouse .

Which is a bit weird because, except for people who have been notified by their doctors that they should shield for 12 weeks, the advice has never been that you can't leave your house, and there have only been restrictions on public facing work places.

@nellodee

For example, China claims to have tested every single one of Wuhan's 11 million residents over a period of ten days.

"China claims" Exactly. I don't believe anything that the Chinese government says

Also some people seem to think that they're much more vulnerable than they actually are. Even if my 80 year old granddad with pulmonary fibrosis got it, his chance of surviving would be greater than of dying.

And I think the current situation is more complicated than "lockdown".

Compared to other countries, the UK, and particularly England, has not been under lockdown.