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Schools fubared till November?

999 replies

Clemmieandareallybigbunfight · 03/06/2020 15:41

Disruption to schools could continue to November, MPs told www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52895640

Is this a dystopian joke?

Are we actually trying to fuck up our kids?

Schools need to be instructed to open fully five days a week with enhanced on day cleaning, increased buses to allow distancing, staggered start and finish, covered but open refuge areas allowing distancing whilst outside in all weathers for breaks and no assemblies. Relatively low investment needed, huge gain economically but more importantly for our kids education and mental health. Some of these kids will never get back to school if they are out for so long. Some will fail to achieve their potential. And all for an illness with a tiny mortality rate overall?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
pfrench · 03/06/2020 17:01

I mean 80s probably a bit optimistic what with poverty shortening your life span and poverty being what thousands of children will enter into.

Yes, 2 months off school will ensure a lifetime of poverty.

Piggywaspushed · 03/06/2020 17:01

Wonder who will read that jake ! I did. I don't think all that many read OP's link.

Laiste · 03/06/2020 17:02

RedToothBrush - Unless we see a considerable spike over the summer, public sentiment will support a full normal return to school in September

I agree. I would support a normal return to school as well.

There is no middle ground here. Get the kids back to their schools for a full education or keep on piddling around with half measures like this. My opinion - We can't and should not keep on like this.

September is seen as a milestone month because it's the beginning on a new school year and a good time to take a deep breath and start getting on with it.

MrsJakeLovell · 03/06/2020 17:02

Also, you may not like it but the additional death toll for this time of year is closer to 60 000 than 40 000 whatever you think of government figures.

We do not have an effective test, track and trace system either.

It is still herd immunity with the nasty party telling the people that they did everything they could.

itsasmallworldafterall · 03/06/2020 17:02

Do you really think it's ok for people to get ill, just so your child doesn't need to repeat a year of school?

MitziK · 03/06/2020 17:03

@Clemmieandareallybigbunfight

No I work in a hospital. We are dealing with issues of shielding staff (a relatively small number and working from home on alternative tasks) and large numbers of people through the doors too. We are looking at providing as much as we can to as many as we can, in far more risk laden circs than a school is. Shielding teachers can still work away from the classroom, relieving those who normally have significant admin burdens but can do face to face teaching.
I've worked in both.

Hospital sites are generally far larger, more spaced out and you don't have every single person within the buildings needing to eat in one small space. Catering staff are employed for more than a couple of hours a day, cleaning staff likewise.

There are a greater number of self contained offices that would make it possible to keep away from the general populace.

The highest risk circumstances/patients are easily segregated through both practise and structural design.

It's also a damn sight easier to recruit - the pay and conditions are significantly higher even at low A&C grades.

TheLashKingOfScotland · 03/06/2020 17:03

Have you ever worked in a school?
This made me Grin
Schools and hospitals are not comparable. The levels and standards of infection control are completely different, the width of corridors, the number of toilets, etc... and tbh I can't believe I even had to type that. It's so obvious.

Bollss · 03/06/2020 17:03

@pfrench

I mean 80s probably a bit optimistic what with poverty shortening your life span and poverty being what thousands of children will enter into.

Yes, 2 months off school will ensure a lifetime of poverty.

For some children it will mean they lose their homes because their parents can't work.
Walkaround · 03/06/2020 17:04

SirSamuelVimes - that’s children under the age of 10, not children under the age of 18. So, not relevant to children in years 6-13.

In all honesty, I do find it a bit odd that we are supposed to be alert to the risk of getting the virus off surfaces that infected people have touched or coughed on, but we are supposed to be completely safe to cuddle, wipe the noses of and be breathed on by small children without any chance of getting a virus we can get off a seat in a church (transmission route demonstrated by contact tracing in Singapore), or in public transport.

Piggywaspushed · 03/06/2020 17:05

We are not Iceland. That's a tiny study. Also, education does not stop at aged 10.

Tulipstulips · 03/06/2020 17:05

It’s not two months, though, is it? It’s already nearly 3! And if they don’t go back until September, that’s 6 months without formal education. And yes. A parent losing their job can push a family into poverty, for one thing. The poorest primary school children are nine months behind the wealthiest - this will push them further behind and widen the attainment gap, which leads to decreased social mobility, for another.

pussycatinboots · 03/06/2020 17:06

The BBC link in full:

The partial closure of schools in England could continue into the autumn and into November, the Commons education committee has been told.

Primary schools opened more widely to several year groups in some areas this week, 10 weeks after they were closed as part of Covid-19 lockdown measures.

Secondaries remain shut and around eight million pupils are out of school.

David Laws, chair of education charity EPI, said assumptions all pupils will return in September may be wrong.

The committee was hearing evidence on the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on education and children's services.

'Immense loss'
Mr Laws, also a former education minister, said: "There's a temptation to think we are in a kind of home learning now and hopefully all back in September. Sadly we may end up with considerable disruption to school in September, October and November."

He urged ministers to make plans and give guidance to schools for "a situation where there may be some home learning for a lot of pupils for a very long time".

Anne Longfield, the Children's Commissioner for England, highlighted that eight million pupils were currently out of school, despite limited opening of primary schools this week.

She said the sheer scale of children not reaching their potential because of this lockdown would be immense.

"That could be eight million children all of whom could well be out of school for six months."

'School drop-out fears'
And she warned as more of society and many parents go back to work, there would be a fall-off in the numbers of those engaging in learning from home.

"As things become more interesting, the shops will be open soon and many kids could spend two and half months browsing in Primark and not going to school."

She added that head teachers had told her they were kept awake at night by fears about some children never returning to school.

The leap that children who had had a negative experience of school would have to make, in order to return to school, would be "vast", she said.

The committee was told the Department for Education needed to publish its guidance on how schools would look in September very soon.

And plans for catch-up summer schools, which were backed by witnesses, needed to be set out by ministers soon, if they were to happen.

Attainment gap
The hearing comes as a report suggested school closures could wipe out 10 years of progress in closing the achievement gap between poor and rich pupils.

Modest estimates in the government-commissioned report suggest the shutdowns could cause the gap to widen by around a third of what it is now.

This could mean poorest primary pupils, who are already nine months behind, slipping back a further three months.

The Education Endowment Foundation study said catch-up tuition would help.

The charity's research also warned of a risk of high levels of absence after schools formally reopen and that this posed a particular risk for disadvantaged pupils.

The rapid evidence assessment drew together evidence on 11 studies from a number of countries on the impact of school closures, focussing on those which looked at learning loss over the summer holiday period.

It found the estimated impact on the gap between the poorest group of pupils, and their wealthier peers ranged widely from 75% to 11%.

The median estimate was 36%, although the researchers said there was high level uncertainty about this average.

The report is published days after a small proportion of the school population returned to lessons.

Although effective remote learning would limit the extent to which the gap widens, the report said there would still need to be sustained support for disadvantaged pupils to catch up.

Over the past decade, the Department for Education has focused attention and resources on closing the disadvantage gap.

It has narrowed from 11.5 months in 2009, at the end of primary school to 9.2 months in 2019.

'Deeply unfair'
Sir Peter Lampl, chairman of the EEF, said: "School closures are likely to have a devastating impact on the poorest children and young people. The attainment gap widens when children are not in school.

"There is strong evidence that high quality tuition is a cost-effective way to enable pupils to catch up."

His organisation has teamed up with a number of other organisations to run a trial in which 1,600 disadvantaged pupils around England are offered one-to-one and small group tuition.

Education Secretary Gavin Williamson said being in school was vital for children's wellbeing.

He added: "This innovative online tuition pilot is an important part of our plans to put support in place to ensure young people don't fall behind as a result of coronavirus, particularly those facing disadvantages."

Russell Hobby, head of teacher training charity Teach First, described the potential loss as "tragic".

This should start with intensive catch-up provision when possible, he said, adding more resources need to be targeted towards those pupils who have suffered the most.

FrippEnos · 03/06/2020 17:06

Clemmieandareallybigbunfight

You missed
Double the number of classrooms
and
Double the number of teachers.

zen1 · 03/06/2020 17:06

I’m not surprised. As we get nearer to the autumn, I can’t see much changing. I think it may be more like next January.

GinnyStrupac · 03/06/2020 17:08

When you see the huge crowds and lack of social distancing at the coast, National Parks and other beauty spots since Boris lifted travel restrictions for recreation and mixed-household meet ups, it seems likely that infection rates will go up again. This will impact on the ability and success of schools reopening. Schools and businesses reopening safely should be the priority, not letting people drive around the country behaving like idiots.

TheGreatWave · 03/06/2020 17:08

stray you sound like you are in such a difficult situation and it is families like yours that are really suffering due to this situation. Can you access any support for you at all?

Bollss · 03/06/2020 17:09

Must be a different virus in Iceland then ehHmm

Tiggering · 03/06/2020 17:10

I have noticed a pattern amoungst the parents I know. Those who have polite, thoughtful children who follow instructions and aren't addicted to screens are enjoying home schooling. The others can't wait for the schools to reopen.

Piggywaspushed · 03/06/2020 17:10

Thanks for posting the whole link pussycat. I think it is clear who Laws and Longfield are holding to account. Clue : it is neither teachers, nor their unions.

twinnywinny14 · 03/06/2020 17:11

@Tulipstulips if they don’t return until September, 9wks if that would have been school holidays anyway.

PenguinMama · 03/06/2020 17:11

As a teacher I'd love for teaching to be back to normal by September. But the only way I think this will happen is if there is strong research showing children are not only lower risk, but also less likely to be a carrier - otherwise families with a shielding member or higher risk will be less willing to send in and we're back to square one. Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if it's blended learning like planned in Scotland.

Those questioning about shielding staff, don't forget some primary schools are tiny - if there are mixed age year groups it'll only take 1 or 2 to be shielding for that to be a third. And given the high proportion of female teachers, there could be more pregnancies than in many workforces.

There is no slack in timetables/teaching allocations due to lack of funding (staffing is the biggest cost) - and getting supply or retired teachers in needs to be managed carefully as it's not just about having an adult in the room, but having a good teacher. As ever, the solution is money and getting started organising this now - but that requires the government to actually think about what will happen in September and let HTs know.

FulfilledRemit · 03/06/2020 17:12

the thought that six months of education and life experience is just... gone. That's terrifying
It isn't even 6 months. The way it's looking I wouldn't be surprised if we have social distancing and part time school for at least the whole 2020/21 academic year.

DomDoesWotHeWants · 03/06/2020 17:13

Our best hope is that the rules on social distancing in schools are reduced/ done away with.

Social distancing is a vital part of keeping the numbers down. That won't change any time soon. The stats say no.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/01/risk-of-infection-could-double-if-2-metre-rule-reduced-study-finds?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2DFwVZv-t3WIjlhlVITmtuuolGR8kzUX6Ca6nbTa1FMR2wCx6H-EwZ7kM#Echobox=1591051712

It will be hard enough with bubble of 15 in most schools.

Piggywaspushed · 03/06/2020 17:13

It's a far far better controlled virus in Iceland, that's for sure. And a far more decisive government.

There was tiny tiny baby with CV in the papers yesterday. The baby didn't die. But it is still shocking to see how much the baby suffered ,and for how long. Children DO get it.

A child losing a significant family member has long term impact on their life chances , more so than any other factor, especially if they already live in relative poverty.

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