Schools fubared till November?

[Clemmieandareallybigbunfight]

Disruption to schools could continue to November, MPs told www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52895640

Is this a dystopian joke?

Are we actually trying to fuck up our kids?

Schools need to be instructed to open fully five days a week with enhanced on day cleaning, increased buses to allow distancing, staggered start and finish, covered but open refuge areas allowing distancing whilst outside in all weathers for breaks and no assemblies. Relatively low investment needed, huge gain economically but more importantly for our kids education and mental health. Some of these kids will never get back to school if they are out for so long. Some will fail to achieve their potential. And all for an illness with a tiny mortality rate overall?

Also i think it's reasonable for schools to consider longer days or weekends. Some parents and teachers might no t mind and schools are empty at weekends (well i imagine clubs etc wont run).
For a 30 ye ar group that could be 3/2/2 days but obviously you would need an extra teacher -assuming already have 1 teacher and ta.
I would also delay reception starting till after xmas and only have in KW reception kids. As they cant distance wont have toys or play equipment etc. Giving school s extra room and TA. Generally no kids are even compulsory school age till Jan plus they will pick up much quicker a few months older. r

Our school could easily have another annexe built for 4 classrooms but it still wouldnt be enough.

Handwashing isnt going t stip people getting this inside

Many schools are at capacity as it is, reducing class numbers to aid 'bubbles' and 2m distancing doesn't allow for normal functioning of the school as it did before all of this, there's simply no space for it. The only way to do it in bigger schools is to alternate days/weeks which isn't what you want. It isn't teachers refusing to work (even though some will be vulnerable and as per the government advice socialising is apparently approved but if worried at their risk), it's simply not feasible to just get them all back safely for some schools. I mean, FGS, I had a 1.5m distance at work from colleagues and our company aren't going back for months yet so we're WFH, some people I know in other companies are WFH until January. That must tell you something?

I hope I hear the last about Sweden soon. This isn't fucking Sweden. Class sizes are not the same they usually have 22 in big cities and 15-16 on average everywhere else. They start school at 6 or 7 I believe so they have a concept of distancing by then as well.

My DH said the kids were so distressed by all of the changes this week that they were all crying hysterically, not knowing what to do like kids lost after a war. It's already too late and yes, I do blame Boris and his piss poor management of this whole thing already for that.

Isn't it embarrassing that you are proud to be so unwilling to do your job as a parent and actually educate your children?

This is usually said by people who’s children are still at the Biff Chip and Kipper books/colouring in stage of education. It’s not quite so easy when your child is in high school studying for National 5 exams in subjects you’ve never studied yourself.

People have to isolate UNTIL the test comes back - hopefully that's only a couple of days

Currently on day 7 of waiting after exposure at work.

4000 odd 45-64 and about 500 under that age. We know that age is the biggest risk along with co-morbidities. So out of those 5000 people, how many were actually healthy working age adults?!

That might be the wrong question. Wouldn’t a better question be how many working age adults are healthy. The co-morbidities that increase risk of severe complications (not just death) from COVID don’t necessarily stop you from working.

I don’t think 1/3 is surprising. It’s roughly the proportion that I think OH and the medical assessors at work identified in our staff.

People have to isolate UNTIL the test comes back - hopefully that's only a couple of days

And how do you suppose that's going to work when they are left to do it on themselves? Ever had one of those tests, done properly? I had, back in swine flu. I couldn't have done that properly on myself had I watched a million clips, the net is already flooded with queries, 'Touch your tonsils. Mine were extracted when I was 6 in 1970-something, I can't see that far back . . .' Totally useless until they get a finger stick one for bloods.

Older children can choose how hard they work during their time out of school and need to take some responsibility for their own education in these difficult times. Those that do will find themselves at a huge advantage when it comes to higher education as they will be well-prepared for independent learning. Those that don't may be disadvantaged, but there is no excuse as there is a huge array of resources widely available online and offline. I am a secondary teacher and I enjoy teaching motivated children - I don't enjoy forcing children to work, crowd control or being abused. If your child is not motivated then please don't blame the teachers who are try their best to educate your difficult child.

All the more reason I am glad we are leaving, with attitudes like this. Most people are not qualified to teach older secondary level students difficult subjects, even those without additional support needs, that's why they go to school and their educators are hired based on such qualification, skill and experience. They're children, not mature Open University students! They're children still. They do not have the cognition of adults, they are neurologically incapable of it, that's why they do such stupid stuff!

'Oh, these are difficult times, I must magic my neurological capability to have the perspective of one 10 years or more beyond my biological age! I must learn to instruct myself.' That's why there are laws so 14-year-olds can't go to work full-time or 16-year-olds sent to sabre rattle and get blown up again in trenches, FFS!

They are children, and they are being thrown under a bus.

Make up your minds then, because despite ridiculous and archaic laws, 14-16-year-olds are not adults. 16-year-olds are not, that is why they are forbidden from combat after tens of thousands of them died in trenches in that other world war some are so desperate to compare all this to, you want to take it that far, Patient Zero of Spanish flu was a poor conscript who was only 19. They are all the more vulnerable because they think they are adults.

I have a very switched on, sensible and, for her age, mature 14-year-old. Life has not been very kind to this girl, she has seen her mother have to leave her to look after her critically ill sister in the only place where she could be treated, seen her brother diagnosed with autism and then go off the rails due to un-diagnosed and un-treated co-morbidities and be separated from the family and continue his education abroad. Seen her family go through a lot. She is 14! And she's amazingly diligent, but she has dyslexia, she needs a lot of support and most of all, she's a child.

She cannot motivate herself or will herself out of her difficulties.

Oh, I should add, then her sister died. She cannot instruct herself and both her father and I are entirely unqualified to do so.

@ProsperTheBear

How do you suggest working full time and home educating works together?

My DH said the kids were so distressed by all of the changes this week that they were all crying hysterically, not knowing what to do like kids lost after a war.

I'm sorry to hear that, but that's not been the case at my school. They've loved it.

We might find out in the long run that school in smaller numbers for less days a week results in better outcomes for kids. Of course parents will want more time than this, but there might be a situation where other childcare eventually becomes available and can be used for the days your child isn't at school.

@MH1111

The government should pay schools per pupil taught in school from September onwards. Shielding staff on a 50% furlough scheme, topped up by the school at their discretion.

Kids should not be required to social distancing as risks to them are minuscule.

There problem solved

If we did that schools would fold. Public and private, but especially those in disadvantaged areas. We normally have 1500 students, 200 could be coming in to school (not including key workers). Parents have sent 6 on average. We would love to furlough staff as a lot of independent schools have despite minimum fee reductions but we are not allowed.

Miss LLM got it right. The government have made the guidance so unhelpful so they can say “we told them to open and they didn’t” - not their fault then!

The government should pay schools per pupil taught in school from September onwards.

How would drastically cutting school funding help ?

I think a few posters have missed the point I was trying to make - if you a struggling to teach your child at home, don't. They wont suffer, they wont miss anything, give them a break and take the pressure off so they can enjoy lockdown. It will make very little difference in the long-term. I accept it is difficult for children to be away from their friends but that is an entirely different issue to their education.

Families that home educate often go through a period of adjustment known as de-schooling. If your child is struggling to work at home then maybe this is needed so they can come back to education more willingly in their own time.

@Drivingdownthe101

Instead of demanding investment in technology to help extend distance learning or making your kids actually complete the school work they are being set (shout out to the 5 students in my class of 31 who have handed anything in these past weeks) you are demanding we all get shoved back into schools

Absolutely agree we should be demanding extra resources. However there is no amount of technology (that I can think of!) that will help me home school my 6 and 4 year olds while also working and looking after a 16 month old.

I’m not talking about primary students.

I’m talking about the perfectly capable but lazy secondary kids.

Workplaces are increasingly online and remote. If we don’t teach them to be more self motivated then they will be set up to fail in the work places of the future.

What I find ridiculous is the utter babying of young adults.

No, they aren’t adults. Yet. But they aren’t little kids. They should be able to organise their own homework. Making excuses for them isn’t helping them.

Maryann1975, you don't need to attempt to teach top set ks3 child. Just show them the way, like give them good resources, often shared on MN. Rest is done by the child if they are willing.

tootyfruitypickle
How do you suggest working full time and home educating works together?

To be clear, you mean the current "home schooling" using resources and lessons provided by the school?

How do you think we all manage? We juggle.
It's harder with younger primary school children who might need a bit of a push, so they work next to me.

I found that compromising with young teens works: as long as they work and do a set amount of hours a day, they are in charge of the time. Mine work a lot better in the evening (and possibly late at night) and enjoy sleeping late. If they start to slip, they'll be up early, will make to have a jog first thing and will have to study downstairs with the rest of us. That's one solution that works for my kids...and they don't have live lessons which helps.

you know your own children, you know what works.

The work is set up by teachers, not me. I wouldn't dream of homeschooling my kids!

Pootle.

I agree with your statement. DH has lost both parents Myself. Thankfully none but they won't be around forever.

Medical care is too good these days and we have lost sight of normal aging.

Luckily for parents our children are strangely protected from covid. More school children per year die from flu and chicken pox and meningitis than have died from covid 19

More taxi drivers and tradesman have died than teachers.

We have to be logical and accept the small risk

I work in leisure and if my company reopened I'd have to go back. I would have no choice I accept that small risk I accept it when I drive on the M25. When I stand near the tube station edge. When I drink alcohol
I accept it when my kids go on a residential on a coach
When standing on a ladder.

LIfe has risk

I'm not sure when schools plan their timetables for September but it is a complex task. Maybe June/July? Our ds gets his by e mail in August . So we will find out soon.

The loss of education and widening of the attainment gap is absolutely tragic and I agree with everyone else who is saying OPEN THE SCHOOLS and manage the risk.

My son is sen and in Mainstream with a plan. I have found that the set work is a one size fits all approach with no differentiation. It is geared towards academic and studious kids. I pointed this out to school but it has not changed. He was completely overwhelmed by the volume as well so I have negotiated with school that he completes English, maths, science and three others of his choice. This is working better and I would rather him complete a few well.
I am WFH and it is difficult to manage all the conflicting demands.
Prob not popular but I believe children have been shortchanged and affected most by all of this. Schools should do everything possible to offer something albeit part time or whatever. We can’t carry on indefinitely like this surely.

Schools should not be opened this year. It will only put the teachers and kids' health at risk..

Gosh there's some weird beliefs on this thread.

The schools ARE opening. It just won't be "normal" YET. just like shops won't be normal nor restaurants nor trains nor busses nor anywhere else ffs. It will be part time for many AT FIRST. Just like EVERYWHERE ELSE.

Anyway, clearly an echo chamber here. Take it up with the government. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Let's ignore the fact that the government are in charge of when and how schools go back for s second and just think about this:

More taxi drivers and tradesman have died than teachers.

At the moment I'm on a rota, I see 3 different classes of 10 kids so 30 kids in total. These kids do not mix with the other kids. When we walk in the corridor there are so few people in that we can walk 2m apart. Same for when the kids go to the toilet. Under these conditions it is fairly risk free, so no, not as risky as some other professions, including taxi drivers and bus drivers. I do not feel unsafe at all.

When we go back to normal, over the course of a week I see 11 different classes of 30 so 330 kids + my own form of 30, all of which will be in 5 different classes a day + form. Never mind the corridors/toilets/canteen. It's expanding the bubbles from 10 + teacher to the entire school (in my case almost 2000 kids) so the risk to me as an individual, but more importantly the community at large, is massively higher. Schools were not closed because they were a risk to the teachers, it's because they're a risk to the community

Plus, once again, teachers will go back when we're told to by the government because THEY are the ones who shut the schools and decide when we open