Schools fubared till November?

[Clemmieandareallybigbunfight]

Disruption to schools could continue to November, MPs told www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52895640

Is this a dystopian joke?

Are we actually trying to fuck up our kids?

Schools need to be instructed to open fully five days a week with enhanced on day cleaning, increased buses to allow distancing, staggered start and finish, covered but open refuge areas allowing distancing whilst outside in all weathers for breaks and no assemblies. Relatively low investment needed, huge gain economically but more importantly for our kids education and mental health. Some of these kids will never get back to school if they are out for so long. Some will fail to achieve their potential. And all for an illness with a tiny mortality rate overall?

*Teaching Unions, and by extension teachers themselves have the power to get the schools open again.

They have a moral duty to the whole country to stop blocking this- it is the single biggest thing that needs to happen to mitigate the devastating recession that is heading our way.*

Not true, Nike – it was the Govt and SAGE scientists who decided that only R, Y1 and Y6 could go back. They decided it and announced it BEFORE they consulted with the NEU or showed them the modelling involved. The union, and teachers, are NOT blocking schools resuming, they simply asked for safety measures to be implemented and that's what's happened although the Independent SAGE committee still says it's not safe. My OH does NOT have a moral duty to the country to put his life on the line by returning to class without any expectation of risk assessment. He's had that, he'll be going back.

The answer is in front of you but you are all looking down at your phones

2m is a made up number
1m = sensible

WASH HANDS
before class
WASH HANDS
before lunch
WASH HANDS
after having a wee boys, that means you
WASH HANDS
after breaks
NO SHARED FOOD
including staff room bicuits
MASKS IN CROWDED AREAS
ie during assembly

and the total long term viral load of schools will drop

Our grandparents knew about handwashing
we forgot

2 million people in the Uk are shielding (according to Robert Jenrick)

Of a population of 66 million, that is approx 3%, the majority of whom could reasonably be assumed to be over working age (happy to stand corrected on this if someone has actual figures)

Kind of unlucky to have 33% of the staff in a single school in that category...

Today one of a bubbles burst with a child having a temperature. Now I teacher and family , 1 TA family plus 11 other children and families isolating until the results come back from the test on that child and family. Plus if positive then a track and trace for anyone else in contact . Its amazing how wide the possible contacts have now expanded....

As meercat explains, it's pure logistics. To enable the deep cleans and manage isolations schools are still going to be disrupted.

Not closed, but it won't be normal. If anything sept may be better than Nov to be honest.

The more people stick to the rest of the rules, the more pupils and staff can go back and stay back and over all, r will come down due to all the SD.

This is not rocket science, it's pure maths and logistics. You can't have your cake and eat it.

There has to be a decision as to what the priority is here as education looks very different to childcare under these circumstances

EnlightenedOwl Ridiculous comment. Many teachers who are shielding have asthma, diabetes or are pregnant. You want to sack them for having conditions that millions of others work with every day? It's not their fault their shielding either - it was Public Health England who decided who went on the list.

If you're shielding, you're shielding? If you're pregnant, you're pregnant? You can't make it up, despite what some posters have tried to say about endless letters issued in error. Not sure what's being implied here. It's perfectly possible by chance that a third of the school could be shielding, and I don't think it's fair to order them back to work. Thankfully there are some people who know about how HR and OH actually works. It's crap for you if they can't work, but it's a lot crapper for them, actually. And the shielding rules apply across the board, it's all industries.

I’ve said this on several threads - it is not possible for such a large proportion of teachers in all the schools reported on here to be shielding. The total population who were told to shield by government letter is incredibly small and cannot possibly be largely made up of teachers. I think people confuse actual ordered by govt. shielding with people who are vulnerable and have decided to self isolate but are not on the governments list. They will have to go back.

The union, and teachers, are NOT blocking schools resuming, they simply asked for safety measures to be implemented

There is no need, there has not been a single death in the u9 age category, and only 300 in the under 65 category.

Our DC are at more risk on the way into school than they ever would be once there.

Shielding teachers/family members should be shielding. That's the whole point.

@ProsperTheBear but this is the whole point of the thread, this is about children still having their education disrupted well into November. That’s not just a few weeks. I’m a MH practitioner, I am fully capable of ensuring my children’s wellbeing throughout this period (whilst also being inundated with my own work during this period). I am talking about children in general, from a wider perspective in society. I am really not “going over the top”. It sounds as though you are doing a sterling job educating your children and keeping their MH up to scratch. Keeping children away from education for months on end IS a big deal.

Thankfully 100% of the staff in our large school are not shielding and able and happy to be back.

I'm curious: how many posters who are berating teachers for not doing their moral duty and moaning about children in all years not being able to return have actually stuck religiously to the lockdown rules? Because the reason we're in this sorry situation with schools and our children being stuck at home, and why Sir Patrick Vallance warned today that the death rate isn't coming down fast enough, is because too many people ignored the rules and the virus has continued to spread. My conscience is clear, what about yours?

How the fuck are parents WaH supposed to work and home school children? My colleague has two teenagers. His wife is senior key worker, working long hours. He is now the main "carer". He is highly intelligent, educated and articulate. He told me "I can't do this. I'm not a trained teacher. I can't help them AND hold down my job". It is expecting far too much of people to suddenly become education experts at home.

NikeDeLaSwoosh It hasn't been proven that children aren't carriers and 47 teachers have died in the UK so far, as a result of catching the virus before the lockdown. So to say there is no risk and safety measures aren't needed are simply wrong. Plus what about the risks to parents doing drop off and pick up? Assuming that's not an issue for you, but might be for your nanny?

@Longwhiskers14

EnlightenedOwl Ridiculous comment. Many teachers who are shielding have asthma, diabetes or are pregnant. You want to sack them for having conditions that millions of others work with every day? It's not their fault their shielding either - it was Public Health England who decided who went on the list.

They need to get back to educating children and if they wont step down are they going to hide forever on full pay

@NikeDeLaSwoosh , the problem is not children's risk, it's the adults' risk. If it was as simple as "everybody who needs to shield stay home", why bother with any social distancing in public at all?

Seriously those who really think it's a minimal risk at school, you are the fortunate ones. There are millions of reasons why the teacher doesn't want to/can't come into school. And without teachers, school cannot operate. And to deal with social distancing, they need more teachers to open school. Simple logic.
A year off school won't damage children. This pandemic may kill some people. Simple logic, again.

WhatExit Good for you. Are you going to home school you dc when all this over? If not why not?

EnlightenedOwl Right, so if a supermarket or office worker, someone working in a care home or a nurse, couldn't return to work yet because they're shielding it's okay to sack them too?

They need to get back to educating children and if they wont step down are they going to hide forever on full pay

Time to enlighten yourself on how workplace health and the law is set up, @EnlightenedOwl ?

Don't forget that a 82% of primary teachers and 63% of secondary teachers are women so there's potentially a greater number of pregnant staff than in other professions. I expect there are higher ratios of women who are support staff.

We will need more staff. I expect asthmatics and a few others will be returning in the autumn, it doesn't change the risk assessments as per government guidelines.

There will be part time education for a while.

If teachers presume that parents can replace them
they undermine their own professionalism

personally I think all kids should be back in school NOW
as the risk to those under 50 is less than seasonal flu

and the damage to kids will last a decade
which any moral teacher should utterly decry

Teaching profession really covering itself in glory

Teaching profession really covering itself in glory

What, because it won't sack people who the Govt has told must shield at home? Christ, there are some ignorant people on this thread.

and the damage to kids will last a decade
which any moral teacher should utterly decry

What everyone should be decrying is the Govt's shit response to the pandemic that's put our children in this position, not the teachers who will do everything they can to pick up the pieces afterwards.

@NikeDeLaSwoosh
I agree that we are facing the biggest recession ever and this will have a huge effect on the country. I do think everyone regardless of the job, profession and the amount of money you have is going to suffer.

However blaming it all on teachers ad teaching unions not wanting to return to school and putting the return of the whole economy on to the back of children being in school is not really fair. You only have to look at the causes of the 2009 recession and that was not caused by children being in school.
Most teachers want to return and educate the children. We have been trying our best in very difficult circumstances. We have in my school returned and made it as best we can for the children. However we cant stretch 7 classrooms into 14 overnight and magic up 7 extra teachers and TA to teach every child full time following the guidance from the government and SAGE to limit the spread of the virus. Then add the extra teachers when a bubble bursts. If you can think of a way please tell me and the scientist on the SAGE group who are they ones who wrote the school guidance.
Yes children do not suffer as bad from the virus but they will take it home to parents who are working, or older members of their families or any one that is vulnerable. I have had the virus and caught it mid March and the only place I and my doctor can track it to is school because I was only there or at home in the two weeks before. I have also been quite ill with it, bed ridden for two weeks and am still I post viral recovery and my husband who was on the extremely vulnerable shielded list also caught it from me. However myself and my colleagues are back in the classroom trying our best to educate children to the best of our limited ability
You can shout and demand that children have a right to full time education. I agree but everyone's safety and I mean everyone young or old is paramount. So yes the virus might not come into your family from school but it could and the more everyone mixes the bigger the risks become. Yes we all need to take risks and as you say the risks to the young of dying or being extremely ill are small but not to the others who they are in contact with at home who do not meet this criteria, are worse It is easy to say it won't happen until it happens in your family or to people you know. We all have a collective responsibility to proceed cautiously knowing we are going to have economic hardships.

But it's not really about the risk to children it's the risk of them spreading to others surely? In Scotland we are not even starting back until August and it will be blended - a lot more time at home than at school. We will be doing well to be back to normal in any sense before next Easter in my opinion.