Why can't zoos open?

[Nquartz]

Zoos have been told they need to stay shut indefinitely yet we can go to Ikea or to buy a car

They are outside, indoor areas can be closed, food outlets takeaway only, same as parks & beaches so why can't they open?

I assume it is a financial decision by the government but I don't understand. Who knows what will happen to the animals if they can't get revenue.

MrsWhites

@TabbyMumzso because you can’t afford to go you won’t support them staying open? If they close what do you think would happen to the poor innocent animals?
No, I think they should make it more accessible for all. They say they are keen on educating children, but then dont make any concessions or make it possible for them to go. Our nearest zoo has just spent millions on enhancements, and are now saying they are in debt.

"Plenty of ways to visit many places much cheaper than that. Also £55 for a family day out isn't that bad compared to other things."
55 pound might be normal for entry to somewhere for you, but not for me, or for many people.

I also assume the potential issue is people congregating around animal enclosures but surely this could be managed with a bit of friendly crowd control.

This will be an issue everywhere though surely, shops have high traffic areas too but are still allowed to open in a couple of weeks.

Yet the eden project opened today....pretty similar in terms of risk I would say

MENU
Mumsnet

Use code MUMSFREE for a free 40 minute trial
1-to-1 maths tuition lesson with a fully qualified tutor on toota
Try now
Talk Coronavirus

First Prev

Next Last5
NHS Coronavirus information | Advice from Public Health England
Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have medical concerns, please seek medical attention
Why can't zoos open?103
Yesterday 14:53 Nquartz

Zoos have been told they need to stay shut indefinitely yet we can go to Ikea or to buy a car hmm

They are outside, indoor areas can be closed, food outlets takeaway only, same as parks & beaches so why can't they open?

I assume it is a financial decision by the government but I don't understand. Who knows what will happen to the animals if they can't get revenue.
Bookmark

Yesterday 14:59 BubblesBuddy

I don’t see what zoo finances have got to do with the government. I assume it’s social distancing between visitors. However it could be regulated with effort.

I don’t understand why the huge area of Forestry Commission land is closed near me either. They have a gate and could limit visitors. They have a massive car park. There are hundreds of acres for walking and separation would be easy. Its continued closure has put huge pressure on other (smaller) areas that are open. I think they just don’t want to bother and don’t see it as important.
Bookmark

Yesterday 15:00 fartingsparkles

This is an utterly appalling decision. It is very damaging to the zoos themselves and is yet another way that this situation is affecting younger children, disproportionately to their risk (and seemingly their risk to others). My local zoo had arranged for limited numbers, prebookable entry only, all cafes shut. Why should that be stopped but Macdonalds, pubs, non essential shops, golf courses and car showrooms be 'ok'.
Bookmark

HIDE AD
ADVERTISEMENT

Yesterday 15:00 Topseyt

I agree with you. It should be perfectly possible to socially distance at most zoos. They are usually big outdoor areas with just some animals housed permanently indoors.
Bookmark

Yesterday 15:18 TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I agree with you. I suppose they are seen as part of the same sector as museums but firstly they are more open air than most, and gardens of historic houses are open this weekend, and secondly they have exceptionally high running expenses even when shut and there is an animal welfare implication if they are allowed to fail.
Bookmark

Yesterday 15:36 Nquartz

Twycross had planned to limit numbers, five people timed slots & implement a one way system to enable people to keep apart but now aren't allowed to open.

Their running costs are £650,000 a month, I saw in Chester zoo's Facebook page that theirs are £1.6m shock
Bookmark

9 easy recipes for baking with kids
Yesterday 15:43 covetingthepreciousthings

I also saw the Chester Zoo post and felt incredibly sad for them, I'm not sure how they are going to manage to keep going whilst they can't have visitors.

IF they did close, what on Earth then happens to all those animals!? As presumably all zoos will be in the same boat..

Social distancing should be possible, I wonder if there's more concerns due to cafes / toilets / seating / play areas ?

Just seems bizarre that these massive generally open spaces can't open but like you say, you can go buy some non essential items from Ikea..
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:16 BamboozledandBefuddled

IF they did close, what on Earth then happens to all those animals!?

I'm trying not to think about that sad
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:20 Floatyboat

Yes it's utterly bizarre. They can't have hired the lobbyists like the other industries. There must be a way of protesting this. Good point about the disproportionate harm to young children.
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:20 AnotherEmma

Because the government doesn't give a shit about our children and their well being.

It would be perfectly possible to open zoos and other outdoor attractions (family farms for example) with the appropriate health and safety measures in place. No more risky - arguably less risky - than the other things that have been permitted.

I also think it would be possible to allow play areas to reopen with the caveat that there should be signs with reminders about distancing and hand washing.

They just don't give a shit though, they think it's fine for our children to be restricted to an extremely limited number of activities for 10.5 weeks and counting.

It makes me incredibly angry
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:22 EnlightenedOwl

Knowsley Safari Park as well in fact all of them
Scary watching a government destroy the country
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:23 leckford

All the Zoos should be allowed to open their outside areas, Chester who we support, in particular has breeding programs for many endangered animals, most cannot be returned to the wild because of humans destroying them and their environments.

I have donated via just giving and signed the petitions
Bookmark

ADVERTISEMENT

Yesterday 16:24 AnotherEmma

Please could you share the petition link(s)?
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:29 catsmother

I know Colchester, Chester and Twycross Zoos very well. They are all capable, IMO, of implementing social distancing measures such as restricted numbers, pre booked and timed tickets, one way systems, closure of play areas inside or out, closure of other currently unsuitable spaces or attractions such as gift shops, sit down eateries etc. I too am baffled and dismayed that they aren't being allowed to open, subject to all possible hygiene precautions being taken and terrified at the implications this could have for the fate of their animals - not 'just' from the tragic prospect of euthanasia but also from the perspective of the work they do to help conserve endangered species.

You know the situation is really bad when a huge successful zoo like Chester is teetering. I dread to think how smaller establishments, many of whom aren't even open daily except during school holidays, are faring right now.

I've wracked my brain trying to understand why there isn't yet a little light at the end of the tunnel for zoos. And no matter how hard I try can't come up with a logical reason for the delay in reopening. About the only thing that's occurred to me is that because zoos typically attract families the thinking might be that excited small kids couldn't be trusted to socially distance as they should. But on the other hand it is 'allowed' (even if frowned upon by some) to take your kids to supermarkets, IKEA, and the much smaller gardens opening up. Let alone crowded outdoor spaces like popular beaches ir seafronts. Really .... why the heck would a properly managed zoo visit be more dangerous, especially when finite numbers can be admitted, unlike Blackpool beach (for example)?

It's yet another example of government ineptitude, contrariness, and lack of common sense (ironic eh, given we're told we should be exercising ours). But one with terrible implications for thousands of animals. And all so bloody unnecessary given the other less controlled, or even uncontrolled outdoor destinations it's now okay to visit.
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:30 IgnoranceIsStrength

BIAZA (british and Irish association of zoos and aquariums) pleaded with Defra to open in June but were told no. Apparently that would make lockdown seem less severe...I have many friends working in zoos and they are struggling. Using all their project money to keep going. Most of them have had zero support from the government beyond the furlough scheme and many are looking at redundancies. It is a joke that national trusts can open and zoos can't.
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:33 NoRoomInBed

Mabye the issue is toilets? I'm probably wrong b
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:34 leckford

I went to Just Giving to donate.

The insanity is Jersey Zoo(Durrell) has been allowed to reopen, with bookings to restrict numbers. I used to volunteer there and they operate on a shoestring. It is unusually helpful by the Jersey government to let them open as they are generally useless.
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:35 Daisyhoney

Bamboo I also worry about what will happen to the animals - I can't bear the thought that a single one would have to be euthanised, none of this is their fault.
We have annual passes for our local zoo (Marwell) and can't wait to go back. Keeping zoos shut makes no sense as they desperately need the money, animals can't be put aside like stock in a shop - they need food and care and I think this situation is grossly unfair 😿
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:35 Ponoka7

With everyone off work/school, how empty would they be?

I could see more Adults going and that means more public transport usage.

Then there's the toilet issue. In theory Social distancing could work, but in practice this means that the Staff would have to Police it and no one wants kick offs in front of children.

I go to Chester Zoo regularly and I've seen people being have to be told to not smoke everywhere and pick up their rubbish. They'd need security guards. So how feasible that then becomes, cost/profit wise, can't be predicted.
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:38 TokyoSushi

It doesn't make sense at all, Chester Zoo does amazing work!

I've just signed www.change.org/p/uk-government-save-chester-zoo?recruiter=false&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf_combo_share_abi&recruited_by_id=9efbaa80-a5ad-11ea-8a97-b35ca84772c1&utm_content=fht-22581704-en-gb%3Av2
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:39 Breastfeedingworries

Bosworth water park was heaving with small children, all running into the water, (which contains no chemicals) yet you can’t use swimming pools laughable. Zoos can’t open but you can go to ikea...

I wish wish wish I’d taken my dd to a zoo before all of this sad wish I’d done many things.
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:40 TokyoSushi

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
Bookmark

Yesterday 16:40 Bubblesbubblesmybubbles

Toilets are open at national trust properties so surely they could be at zoos?
Bookmark

KnobChops

Because they’re for children who apparently don’t matter in this country.”

Odd perspective. I’m a grown up. I love the zoo.

Oops, sorry!

Meant only to say:

KnobChops

Because they’re for children who apparently don’t matter in this country.”

Odd perspective. I’m a grown up. I love the zoo.

Yes, I have wondered about this too, completely bonkers that you can go to IKEA but not a zoo. What an absolute shambles this whole thing is, not one of them has a fucking clue.

@TabbyMumz

‘No, I think they should make it more accessible for all. They say they are keen on educating children, but then dont make any concessions or make it possible for them to go’

I don’t know about other zoos but Chester zoo offer 36,000 free school visit places so although not offered to family groups they are definitely making the zoo accessible to children.

Zoos in Europe in the past have resorted to killing some animals to feed others. So shoot the zebras, feed them to the lions and save money on food.

Really hope it doesn't come to this here.

"don’t know about other zoos but Chester zoo offer 36,000 free school visit places so although not offered to family groups they are definitely making the zoo accessible to children."
They arent free. When your child goes with school, you have to pay for entry.

They say they are keen on educating children, but then dont make any concessions or make it possible for them to go.

I dont know about all zoos but I doubt this is true for the vast majority of zoos and wildlife parks. Chester zoo for example gave away 20,000 tickets this year to enable children, especially those from from poorer backgrounds to visit.

They arent free. When your child goes with school, you have to pay for entry.

You don't have to pay for the entry as the tickets are free. Any cost in these trips is normally for the transport. However the school isn't forcing you to pay anything, they ask for a voluntary contribution. If you couldn't afford to pay you would discuss it with the school and I'm sure they would make allowances so your xhild didn't miss out.

*my post should have said they gave away 42, 000 tickets not 20,000.

@tabbymumz

That's irrelevant. Something can have worth even if you don't personally go. I don't go to garden centres - doesn't mean I want them to close.

My point was it's comparable to other days out, so affordability is not a unique problem of zoos. Cheaper than theme parks. Maybe the same as cinema and fast food meal. As I alluded to you can often get cheap deals (7 people could go to knowsley safari for £20 this winter which is extraordinarily cheap). The other model is membership. If you go every month this would make a family visit maybe under £15 which is similar to some soft play centres and definitely cheaper than the movies (and a longer more fulfilling experience). Like anything, being a little bit savvy works wonders.

It is crazy you can go to ikea but not a zoo. They may have to limit numbers but should be quite easy.

You have to pay for your child to go with school for transport and other related costs but not for zoo entry if your school has applied for the free tickets, hardly the zoo’s fault if your school hasn’t!

@Nquartz

I'm pretty sure the National Trust is a charity too and they're allowed to open their gardens now.

Regardless of their charitable status however, and how that effects government revenue, the government still benefits indirectly from allowing zoos to open. Most visitors would drive there so tax on petrol for a start. And if zoos can take (at least some) staff off furlough there's an immediate saving for the government. Ultimately, if jobs can be saved, that's another saving because inevitably some (many?) redundant employees would need to claim benefits.

I still can't think of a logical explanation (given current regulations re: comparable outdoor spaces) why the government are dragging their heels on this. Could it be something as petty as zoos being seen as places of 'entertainment' primarily? (even though they are valuable educationally, and from a conservation perspective)..... while somehow, the uncontrolled free for all type of melees seen recently on beaches can be excused away because with the sea in close proximity they can argue people are swimming and therefore exercising ?! Similarly, gardens could also be seen as somehow more 'virtuous' because they don't have the same frivolity associated with zoos perhaps?

The ridiculous thing is that with larger zoos you could easily walk 3 or 4 miles or more without realising. It's a great way to get reluctant kids exercised.

I'm clutching at straws here but god knows, I wouldn't put it past this shower of useless, out of touch, uncaring buffoons to have come up with the notion that they can't be seen to be encouraging 'us' to enjoy ourselves too much. Or alternatively (and I apologise for politicising) is there something more sinister afoot where they'd actually prefer us to spend our free time in less controlled environments where there's a greater risk of transmission due to numbers?

We have an annual pass for the zoo my husband works at. He says ( and I think he's probably right) that if they open to prebookings only, the annual pass members will expect priority booking, therefore more work will be created (Cleaner's/gate staff/ guest services all currently furloughed) for no actual gate income. There was hell on a couple of years ago when Santa was booked up without priority booking for the annual pass members.

I've seen it suggested that Carrie Symonds, Johnson's partner, doesn't like zoos. However, that would presume he's had some involvement in the decision, and frankly he seems to be doing fuck all right now. More likely that it's just stupid decision making where different government departments haven't worked together - I saw something else to that effect.

Primark is going to be much worse in terms of social distancing than even a group of people around one animal enclosure. There's no logic to it.

Tabby presumably if the zoo closes and no one can go, you'll be happier because it's the same for everyone.

@SuperSange I’ve just been thinking the same about annual pass members. As a pass holder myself I think I would expect to be able to visit within a reasonable time period but not necessarily priority visits, perhaps they could manage this with something like one day a week where annual pass members get priority booking or maybe something like a certain percentage of the reduced numbers is released to annual pass members first?

@SuperSange

That's something for the zoos to manage not the government. The government is forcing them to shut. Zoos want to be open.

@MrsWhites , I do hope they're going to do something like that. I can see both sides of it and usually they're quite sensible about the balance of annual pass/paying day guests. He's been working throughout this fortunately as he works with the animals and is firearms cover and the staff are very concerned.

@Floatyboat I was speaking from the perspective of when they are allowed to open.

@SuperSange

Yes I know. I agree it's a challenge but doesn't explain why the government has made the decision it has.

FFS Poor you..

IT is so telling that people are placing Zoos in the same category as McDonalds...

Poor me "They are re-opening McD's yet they are not opening Zoos!"

I cannot go and gawp at caged animals as they sway and shake and show signs of distress and mental illness for my entertainment! Poor me.

And don't give me that bollocks about "conservation work" and "endangered" species. The people that run these places are interested first and foremost in sustaining their own existence.

Even Chester Zoo that you keep going on about ships off elephants to other zoos like Madrid to take part in Captive breeding programmes to perpetuate the whole miserable existence of these animals that should be ranging for hundreds of miles not living in fucking concrete enclosures in some bloody freezing inner city.

If these animals have lost their natural habitat due to humans, we just need to either accept it and let them die out and own the fact we have done that or change our behaviour.

But no, people want their entertainment. A day out.
Pointing at the caged monkeys as they munch their crisps, pushing prams as they head off to the fucking Zoo shop.

Bunch of idiots.
How depressing.