Three mothers considering legal action over impact of social distancing on children

[Fantasisa]

I have to admit that I hadn't even thought the long term impact through of social distancing on children although it has made me so sad when my DC have seen their friends around and only waved sadly at each other from a distance.

My DC's primary school hasn't reopened today and no words from the headteacher to update us on their plan.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8374849/Three-mothers-considering-legal-battle-Government-school-closures.html#comments

There are some children with already pre existing difficulties who have found lockdown distressing but I don't think this is about them.

It wasnt that long ago and people were clamouring 'shut down the schools immediately'. There is no way to win this, pretty sure they just want some cash and attention.

So would it be ok for a teacher to sue the child's parents if they caught Covid from said child?

We are in a pandemic. If it isn't safe for someone to do something then it isn't safe. I don't see how one person's want to do something trumps other people's right to be kept safe.

Honestly. Children have not been kept indoors in the UK. They've been able to go outside thought all of this, they've been able to mix with their parents and their siblings if they have them. I'm sorry but why does your child have the "right" to socialise with other children? What if other children don't want to socialise with that child because of the risk of catching Covid? Will the parents sue other parents for not sending their children to school because now their child has no one to play with at school?

Honestly, can you imagine this country during the war if people like this were living in it? Would they have sued the government for.impising blackout or food rationing?

This is ridiculous! Are they actually claiming that their children have been psychologically damaged by being at home with their parents for a few months? I know it’s not ideal but come on!

@RedToothBrush

It has become apparent to me just how uninformed parents are and what arses this makes them if you are a teacher.

The schools can not follow the guidance provided to them AND provide spaces for all children in school. It is impossible. Yet parents think they somehow can perform miracles.

A lot of people who claimed to support key workers really don't if they think it OK to bash teachers who are trying to follow the rules they have been given.

These women are on a hiding to nothing. It's a stupid case which hasn't got a chance of being successful.

It's getting tiresome.

Tbh the sooner the schools just reopen normally without all the nonsense the better. If it's not safe enough to do this, the schools shouldn't be reopening.

Excellent post. I completely agree.

The government have been ridiculous in opening schools with these rules in place. They are unworkable. If schools can't safely open as normal then they shouldn't open.

Less on the social distancing aspect but I do wonder if there will start to be more discussion on the impact on children. Schools such as my son’s primary are not educating him either remotely or in person. While we can say “it’s a pandemic” I wonder how long as a society we will be on with that and how you will start to get more parents go “hang on”...it’s interesting when on here I point out my concerns re my sons education posters are keen to point out it doesn’t matter as its “short term” or “only six months” suggesting they too would develop concerns if this went on for after September and through the next academic year.

I think parents like this may seem “mad” now but it will be interesting how long as a country we are prepared to go on like this, I will not be the only one who will look at confusion in September that there are restaurants, bars and cinemas but no schooling for our children surely?!

Has it been two years or just two months?

I think they are being ridiculous. The government can’t win. If they let all the kids pile on in, they’d be attacked for letting it spread. If they do it bit by bit as they are, they’re attacked for keeping children out of school

This, I mean WTF lol
I'm no fan, but FGS, they can't win!
Always going to be somebody whinging and moaning whatever you do.

In Spain your dog could go outside but your child could not - for 6 weeks. Did you really say that? It didn't occur to you that we value children more than dogs? Also you seem to have missed that dogs (as far as we know) don't catch it.

"the view seems to be that children are targeted virus weapons who will take out all of their teachers because they are filthy"

You're not a parent then? If you were you'd understand that kids can't easily learn to social distance and have always passed around diseases (and nits) as they have close contact with parents, siblings and friends.

Also you don't catch or pass on a virus because you are dirty or less of a person. What is this? The middle ages?

Mine have been affected. My eldest has already suffered his dad abusing me and walking out, moving miles and miles away to a completely new place - city to country, new school. Then a few weeks later after making friends and settling happily for the first time in his life, this happens. It's no ones fault! He has become very anxious, clinging, and teary and I have done my best, alone with a hyperactive possibly SEN (diagnosed) 3yo who has constant, screaming meltdowns too. Luckily - very luckily my boys school are going to let both boys in for a bit starting next week. If people are in this situation they need to speak to their school.

From what I've seen on FB, kids being homeschooled with mum and dad there are happy, healthy kids generally. But of course they will miss their friends, their activities etc.

Schools should be accountable. We have not been told by ours what it is doing to get children back in or if it will happen. We have had no contact from them apart from links to a website since this started. Regardless of where you stand on whether they should reopen or not, that is not acceptable.

@LastTrainEast there is zero zero zero scientific basis for not allowing children outside for a walk with an adult for fresh air and sunlight even in the worst phases of the outbreak.

Look at the evidence in countries that have reopened schools. The “children are super spreaders” claim is not true.

Lockdown needed to happen due to various government failures but I don’t think children’s needs were prioritised enough and they still are not.

And yes I’m a parent. I’m out of the UK and my DCs have been out of school for five months. But in my country restaurants and offices have all reopened.

There was never a time in UK where dogs could be taken out but DC had to stay in

Are these parents of DC with no additional risk? Those with ‘flu jab’ level vulnerability? Or shielded ones, for whom the change in guidance allowing them to leave their homes at all (if safe) came into effect only today?

Suing the government achieves getting their own sad face in the Daily Mail, I don't think it can achieve any more than that. If we were in Spain then I'd think it was fair, keeping children inside is cruel and has always seemed unreasonable based on the evidence so far of how this spreads. As far as socialising, children can both cope and learn resilience, for a while. In my opinion it hasn't been long enough yet, nor unreasonably long given the current case numbers, to justify complaining that public safety was put before education. Time to learn can be made up, lives cannot. We are at a balancing point where changes can happen to bring us closer to normal (unless the virus mutates or spreads again significantly), but it's obviously fraught with difficulties. At the moment solutions need to be found to looking after children, or adequate proof that they are at low risk of causing infections. I do agree that the ideal would surely be small bubbles rather than distancing, because it's better to let them play. I've no idea how enough teachers nor space can be found for that, I don't think anyone does yet.

My children seem to be more affected by face masks than not going to school. The eldest is very pleased not to be going. The youngest doesn’t seem to have noticed. But the younger one in particular keeps making face masks for us/his toys and ordering us to put them on. Maybe I should campaign to make the wearing of face marks illegal?

I also struggle to understand what their legal position is. There are no absolute human rights under the EU system (UK is still a part of that). I really struggle to see how they would successfully argue an illegal derogation from ECHR obligations given the situation. They mention the UN charter on the rights of the child. At the very most they could take that to the relevant UN commission but any result would be non-binding on the U.K. Either they are very very naive about human rights law or they have no intention to sue and are looking for attention by making threats.

"allowing them to leave their homes"

Shielded people were never legally prevented from going outside - they were subject bonly to the same legal rules as everyone else.

They are no more infectious than anyone else, so it was / is entirely their choice to stay indoors for their own safety

Why are some people using Spain's lockdown rules, which England did not follow in giving merit to this debate?

I thought schools were introducing 'bubbles' of kids for interaction.

Anyway, we didn't (and so don't) have a choice but to social distance. These parents are ridiculous.

I think they're being utterly stupid. Unless you've all been isolating, completely, for the 12 weeks you cannot say you or your family are not asymptomatic with Covid 19.

I go out each week to my local supermarket. I've careful but we have to eat. I have no idea if I pick up something from the shelf that has been handled by a person with Covid. I bring that item back into my house.

People have had to work during this - whether that's NHS, delivery people, supermarket staff. I have had to go to my post office each week as I have a small business that's keeping the wolf from the door at the moment and have to send out orders. It's always busy. There's sanitiser at the door but how do I know if everyone has used it? The woman who runs our post office sanitises after each customer but she can't wipe down every counter that a person with Covid has leaned against.

So the kids may have been home for 12 weeks but every time they or their family has been out they, potentially, bring the virus back home. Therefore they are not 'safe' or 'germ free' and, unless these women are consenting to their kids having the nasal/throat test done, they cannot prove that.

So social distancing has to stay in place and they'd be better off teaching their kids why, how it works and treat it like a big game that they and their friends are all part of.

Testing or social distancing - their choice.

I'm in Germany, where schools reopened for selected forms from about 4 May

Both staff and pupils could choose to wear masks if they wished.
Masks are mandatory here for shops, public transport etc, so kids are used to seeing them and don't seem bothered.

Human rights laws allow exceptions for emergencies like pandemics

My DC's primary school hasn't reopened today and no words from the headteacher to update us on their plan.

Ditto. Last we had was a letter on 21/05 saying they would at some point offer some p/t education to year 6 only but couldn't yet say when. Really, really unimpressed with this lack of information and communication, although what irritated me the most was the tone of the letter- it managed to insinuate that any parent wishing their child to return to school had insufficient regard for their safety and told us all we should enjoy this 'family time'.,

Cases and deaths have been falling in Germany, depsite schools, shops etc reopening
Deaths have been only in double digits for a couple of weeks now, recently sometimes only single digit

All pupils will have attended pt school at some time,
before breaking up at the end of June as usual for the summer vacation

Kindergarten, nurseries and other childcare are opening from about 2 June, so all parents should soon be able to work ft again

Holiday childcare should be open for all kids
and schools are expected to reopen full-time after the vacation, for all pupils

I dont see how suing the government is going to achieve anything. My own dc have been spending more time online so they can still speak to their friends but you can tell its affecting them.
It's not a normal situation and while I think the government has made a massive cock up in the way theyve handled it I cant see them successfully being sued. Maybe if we end up with loads of lockdown yes but just one, no way. It's a learning curve for everyone.

I’m actually pleased people are trying to hold the authorities to account. Social distancing in schools seems to be a completely disproportionate response.